Want something more forgiving than Vandy 3a sigs

Bondman - Thank you for your ideas. I've not heard any of the speakers you mentioned, and I will keep them in mind.

You're certainly correct about the ARC reputation. Two things: My LS15 was modified by Steve Huntley at Great Northern Sound. It is no longer "cool" sounding. I bought it (unmodified) 2nd hand because I wanted to try the ARC "sound" knowing that Vandersteens were often paired with ARC. In stock condition, I really disliked it. I sent it to Steve on a lark, essentially (well, he has a great reputation, and told me he thought after he was through with it, I would feel much differently about it). He was right; it was an amazing difference.

Also, with the VT 100 amp, you get quite a different sound from the 4 ohm output tap than you do from the 8 ohm. Significantly warmer.

I've enjoyed the ARC equipment--used as described--more than I expected and more than several other pieces I've tried, including 2 Cary pre-amps.

I also like the Harbeths that I'm using now, instead of the Vandersteens. I may be too lazy, at this point, to change.

Let me add my 2c.
I used to have the 2CE Sig, then powered by a 50w tube amp with lots of current. It sounded greated, but I couldn't get ride of an irritating ringing from the tweeter. My understanding was that the 3A Sig tweeter was supposed to be an improvement over the 2s. Anyway, I later sold them off and purchased the Cabasse Baltic/Thor combo which I am very happy with till now.

Many moons later while at a dealer/friend's shop, I again heard the 2CE Sig II(new model) which supposedly has the upgraded tweeter from the 3A Sig and it sounded surprising smooth and good, no irritating sounds from the well-behaved tweeter at whatever frequency it was. Further investigation reveiled that it was the amp powering the 2CE SigII which had such good control over the speaker even when pushed loud.

I therefore advise that you consider the Sanders ESL amp for your 3As.

Another point to consider is power supply. Some have raised it already, but I'm not sure if it was fully considered, especially with CD playback. Till now I have always used the PS Audio P300 in "sine" mode to power all my source equipment. While the multiwave has always been recommended by the manufacturer, I've found, after extensive listening, that while it does enhance detail, it does this to the detriment of the music's flow. The pure sine wave let the music flow more naturally and smoothly.

If a lot of users claim the 3As are laid back, its hard to image that it is at fault unless you have a lemon. So chances are the fault lies somewhere else - ie the power amp or the power supply.

Of course these are just my "guesses" based on my pass experience with Vandy speakers, but I think you should not give up on them so easily. Going to an all warm setup may not be the best solution as it will tend to mask detail. As a musician, I think musical coherence in terms of tonal accuracy and musical timing are paramount to your enjoyment of the music.

Thanks, CMK. Actually, the Vandy's are gone, in favor of Harbeth M30s. Yes, I lost a bit of detail; however, that was in favor of musicality--to my ears, anyway. It took me months to get used to the idea of giving up on the Vandersteens, mainly because so many people said "But everybody else says they're laid back!" (though I wonder how many of those folks had actually lived with them, day in and day out--though I know a few did, and you lived with the 2's). But the person I finally listened to was the one who said "Trust your ears." I finally did, and never looked back.

In fairness to Vandys 2's and 3a's, compared to a lot of speakers, they are less aggressive. (I don't feel quite that way about the Quattros.) They just weren't "less aggressive" enough, for my ears.

Reproduction of high frequency information is one of the toughest duties of stereo gear. I happen to be very sensitive to that area, for whatever reason. I used to be a musician, have an undergraduate degree in Music Theory, and played jazz, and listen to lots of classical music, and have spent a lot of time in the great concert halls of this country. This has nothing to do with not knowing how live music sounds like. It's just an ear preference/taste issue. (It also was not an electronics issue. I auditioned plenty in my home and stores. I just couldn't get the sound where I envisioned it. Now I'm a bit closer.)

I appreciate your thoughts.

Dear Eweedhome,
Thanks for the clarification about your amp -- you're correct, I didn't realize the ARC VT100 was tube. Always good to learn something new!

About the Manger speakers.... happy to describe them a bit. They're German-made (and thus rhyme with "longer" as opposed to "danger") and use a unique bending-wave, full-range (80-33,000Hz!) transducer. The plentiful technical details are available on the Manger web site (I tried copying the url into this message, but it's too long for the English-Language version, so I'd just Google "Manger speakers" and poke around what comes up. Manger UK is one of the first hits, and you can download pdfs with all the technical information).

If you want to audition them, the U.S. dealer will ship them to you for an in-home workout, along with a demo CD produced by Manger bearing an extraordinary range of sounds, from church bells pealing to Livingston Taylor whistling to orchestra, etc. I have never been so astonished as when I first hooked up these speakers (and many friends had the same reaction): I could have sworn there was someone right in the room whistling -- and it didn't matter if I was in the "sweet spot" or not. They sound just as realistic being overheard from the next room. They capture the woody, organic feel of live instruments (John Eliot Gardner's Bach cantatas never sounded so full and stirring); they are lush and smooth, crystal clear, there is no roll-off in the upper treble. And all this with the smallest speakers they make, the zerobox 109's!

I've compared the Manger zeroboxes side-by-side with a number of much more expensive speakers, including horn Trios, and to my ears they outshone every one of them except the $100+K horns for a fraction of the price (around $7K now, I think). Granted, they were also being driven by a variety of high-quality components, but still...

Speaking of other components, I've heard these speakers with a number of different amps, both solid state and tube. Despite the fact that the U.S. Manger dealer (and Daniela Manger herself) recommend solid state amps because the zerobox 109's are relatively low efficiency and sensitivity (4 ohms and 88 dB), and the reviewer at tnt-audio.com speculated that tube amps might, with their warmth, be too much of a good thing (though he didn't listen to that combo), my then-husband and I found that quality tube amps simply allowed the speakers (and the music) to sound the most real, immediate, moving, involving. (It was during these tests that I discovered the glories of the Wavac $20K tube amp.... sigh!)

Strangely, the company seems to suffer from bad marketing decisions, kind of like Apple before the iPod (superior product, small market). They've done little to promote their product, even hurting sales by weirdly recommending some rather low-end component accompaniments that don't do the speakers justice. (They started out, years ago, selling the driver by itself to DIY-ers who would make the speaker boxes, and this early history of frugality has persisted, to their detriment.) But the vast majority of people who have actually heard them, both professional reviewers and "laymen", are blown away by them. I think those of us who listen primarily to acoustic music are the most appreciative of their qualities.

Hope you get a chance to thoroughly test them out some day.

best,
limbic