Focal -JM Lab Nova Utopia Be VS. B&W 801D

Not to thoroughly hijack this thread, but simply for the sake of discussion, I note that I heard the original Grand Utopias in the same room at Singer back in 2000 driven by big Krell and supported with Krell's big subwoofer ("Master Reference"). Of course it went loud as hell and shook the foundation, but it sounded, overall, totally unconvincing -- it was as far away from the actual sound of unamplified instruments in its own way as a clock radio. We then went into the much smaller adjoining room ("we" -- Cincy Bob was in town and along for the ride that day as well) where a pair of Meadowlark Herons driven by a VAC 30/30 did everything right that the JM Labs / Krell set-up did wrong -- we shook our heads in amazement at how much better the Meadowlark / VAC combo was at emulating the sound of unamplified musical instruments.

PS - I would bet the ranch that Audiooracle, whose talents I know well, almost certainly put together the Meadowlark / VAC set-up, and that he had nothing to do with that dreadful Grand Utopia / Krell set-up !!

Racquel,since I try to hear almost ANY Utopia type set-up I can squeeze in,at a reasonable distance from my home turf,I heard that set-up too.I definitely agree.My original point of this "type" of speaker needing a specific set-up for "UTOPIA" in listening remains intact.They are quite finicky to get just right.Sorry,but Mr. Scull(a very nice guy,btw)did not have the "magic" when I was at his listening room.In the "ribbon chair"!
Like some other products I have come into contact with over the years,these baby's have that "something" which continues to intrigue me!
Also,Singer demoes, at shows, have remained a huge disappointment.
Best.

As I write this, I am enjoying my Grande Utopia Be's, which sound absolutely stunning (and as close to live as I can find) in my room. I've heard the Grande Be's at Sound by Singer several times, and they sound terrible there (IMO). No way I would buy them based on that audition alone.

The Nova Be's are a terrific speaker and are a "bargain" compared to the Grandes given the huge price differential - even more of a bargain if you buy them off of Audiogon.

Reply to Kmccarty. I know exactly what you mean. How many times do we hear great audio gear sound terrible at dealers, audio shows, ect... I have a pair of JM Lab Electra 920.1 speakers in my two channel setup and JM Lab Chorus in my home theatre which both sound great. I've also heard them at dealers where they sounded horrible. If that was my impression of JM Lab speakers I would of thought they sucked! I think some audiophiles tend to make judgement too quickly based on experiences of poor sound at dealers. IMO most dealers would be rich if they could make money on demonstrating poor sound. Some audiophiles go on about what is wrong with the design of a particular product and therefore claim its no good. Most of us are really not qualified or have done proper experiments to come to these conclusions. A great example is how some claim that the woofer has to be a certain size in relation to the midrange in a 3 way design. Both the Nova Utopia and the 801d have large woofers compared to their midrange (13" and 15" 3 way systems). Both can sound utterly superb in the right setup. That being said its my own policy to hear potential upgrades in my own room because you simply can't trust what we hear at a dealer or what people say. By the way I've never had the pleasure of hearing the Grande Utopia Be but can only imagine how amazing they can sound!

My 2 cents: I listened to Andy Singer's Nova Utopia show at the NY show (2004 I think) and thought the bass was really abusive, for what it's worth. OTOH, his Grande Utopia Be demo in the next room (about the same size as the Nova room I think) was far better, with well integrated and natural bass and great vocals. (It was some Rolling Stones DVD). The Novas sounded like they were strained and pushed, but the Grandes sounded really effortless and not at all overwhelming for their size.