Do you ...Center Channel?

Baam23f,

Huh? That is an analog device...forget it.

You need a DSP....this will allow you to precisely configure what you send to each speaker, including how you roll off each individual speaker and how you treat center information, subwoofer information and matrix process the surrounds...no way I would use an analog device for this purpose....forget it...the filtering and processing (none)is so limited on an anlog device!

Really? It is an analog device specifically because it can take multiple analog inputs and bass manage them. That's all! There is no matrixing or other processing included or needed.

Any DSP device to accomplish the same or more would require additional A/D/A conversions which would be redundant and compromising.

Now, if you can come up with a DSP-based bass management accessory that will handle CD, DVD, SACD and DVD-A sources, let us know.

Kal

Any DSP device to accomplish the same or more would require additional A/D/A conversions which would be redundant and compromising.

I am not aware of any current consumer HT multi-channel source that is not digital (DVD, SACD).

It begs the question as to why would you use analog bass management or combine analog signals to generate a phantom center channel when digital processing is much more flexible, precise and low cost (can do almost anything mathematically that software will allow).

As for A to D conversions - these can be done extremely accurately and without loss/compromise, given today's electronics (for example you want to get bass management from two channel analog data from an old analog two channel source such as a casette deck or TT). However, for digital devices, taking a digital out to a DSP from a digital source is probably the most sensible option rather than an A to D conversion.

Personally I don't think the compromises are so significant as the limitations of an analog filtering circuit and analog mixer. I don't have a stigma about digital being bad but I understand that many audiophiles feel that digital is the dark side...if you feel digital is the dark side then I agree that you should go with an all analog setup.

The whole ICBM issue begs the question about deriving a center channel since it will not do that nor, I think, does Baam23f think it does. The ICBM is sorta off-topic in this thread.

In the (near) future, when all MCH formats can be transferred as digital signals to AVRs and pre/pros, this will become less and less of an issue. In fact, Outlaw has discontinued the ICBM in recognition of the declining need for it. That said, I do not believe there is another product that will do the same job, except the MartinSound ManagerMAX. Certainly, no digital device is available, AFAIK.

And I do agree with you about the relative transparency of the A/D/A conversions if done well. For example, SACDs fed into the 24/96 A/D inputs of my Meridian 861 still sound excellent. But, frankly, the A/D conversions of most AVRs are not to that standard, in my experience.

Kal

I too was in a situation of whether or not to keep my center channel. I am running B&W 802's in the Front, HTM1 Center and 805's rears. All powered by Rotel Gear and Audioquest cables.

My problem came with space limitations with my Plasma screen. I can't wall mount my plasma due to a water pipe in the wall of my Condo, so my Plasma must sit on the buffet table. My HTM1 is 12" tall, so I'm left with either having to build a stand for my Plasma to sit on, or doing away with the HTM1. I've run the sound with both 5.1 set up and 4.1 (creating a Phantom Center). I have SPL metered both set ups as well.

My findings is that as long as I'm sitting on the sofa in front of the TV, I prefer the Phantom Setup. In fact, the SPL meter is higher/louder with just dialog scenes in Phantom Center mode than in 5.1 mode. The Dialog seems richer and less mono, as well as the TV is at a more natural viewing height.

The only reason I could see keeping the Center is for SACD and 5.1 Music recordings, which I rarely listen to. I prefer 2 channel music anyway.

I wish I had known this, I would never had bought a center channel to begin with!!! The HTM1 is mammoth!!!

I'll be selling my Center HTM1 soon either here or on eBay. I guess I'll use the money to upgrade my Rotel Receiver to Arcam!!!

My recommendation, and I'm no expert, but think I can appreciate good sounding audio is as follows:
If you have a processor/receiver that can produce 4.1 with a Phantom Center, good imaging speakers with a wide soundstage and good cables that really open up that soundstage, then run your system in Phantom mode and save your money.

This of course is if you are planning on sitting in between the L/R speakers.