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What makes instrument immediacy, -separation & -bo

What makes instrument immediacy, -separation & -body density ?

Most speakers i´ve heard present a "you are there" presentation, where you have the feeling of sitting in the recording room/hall. But instrument separation is mostly poor and body is thin even with high end systems.

My ideal reproduction paradigm is : the instruments are playing in my room, 5ft in front of my feet and i "look" into the stage which is ideally extending beyond wall boundaries of the front wall.
The goal is:
maximum instrument body density already at moderate levels.
high contrast between soundstage,air around the instruments and dense instrument body. grip.
instruments appear deep anchored, earthed, energized,
Immediacy while having a cohertent not forward presentation.
deep soundstage

which products (cdp,preamp,amp (300b?),speakers) favourize these design goals ?

yet i´ve found bookshelfs and tube amps to be good in these categories, but havent found a excellent system yet.
Energy speakers were not bad.
Didnt like B&W 805, Dynaudio, JMlab micro utopia - possibly with wrong (cheap) amplification.

What do you think of Reference 3a MM Decapo i with VAC ren 30/30 in a 20x17x9 room ? system budget: 9k

greets

stonedtemplepilot
stonedtemplepilot
newbee
4,767 posts
 
"What do you think..."

I think you may not have optomized your speaker/room set up/interface with any of the speakers you have mentioned.

JMHO based on your comments.
stonedtemplepilot OP
26 posts
 
well, some speakers produce excellent resulution, texture, room information - you are there - paradigm

and some produce dense instrument body - "they are there" paradigm

some amps do, some not

which one do you know ?

speakers dont have to go loud as well...
dont produce ultra resolution (fail with all other than ultra good recording quality)

i´ve heard 300 b do an excellent job in instrument presentation. what do you think ?

pbb
1,140 posts
 
Honestly, I find that what you are seeking is just the opposite of what live music in most venues sounds like. I am always amazed at how, except, obviously, for solos or one section of the orchestra playing on its own, the sound of an orchestra is way more homogenized than what audiophiles seek. Rock, or other amplified music for that matter, is the same for another reason: the homogeneity comes from the fact that everything comes out through the PA system.

Seems that on the road to the absolute sound, people keep forgetting what the real thing sounds like. What strikes me more as missing from recorded music are the speed, airiness and dynamics of the real thing. My youngest daughter started drumming about a month ago and I can tell you that no system has the slam of a real bass drum or the shimmer of a real cymbal.

The only music that makes sense to experience as the it is here in the room notion, is anything that could actually fit in your room: a solo piano, a trio or quartet at most, a folksy singer with guitar accompaniment. Anything bigger and you have to give that up,
stonedtemplepilot OP
26 posts
 
thanks for your input

yes i am seeking for the opposite of what live music in most venues sounds like - cause i want a unplugged session in a tiny jazz club sitting in the first row...

i am sure a bunch of people want that as well..
dgarretson
2,598 posts
 
Having recently progressed through stages of mods to a BAT VK tube amp, I've heard the qualities of which you speak all improve together in the same amplifier driving the same speakers. It's particularly interesting to me that soundstage size & depth-of-field are as much a product of improvements to the amp's electronics as they are a result of speaker placement or room effects. Deep-hall effects are revealed in the far corners, but the performance also moves forward of the speakers toward the listener. The amp improves in its ability to retain accurate frequency balance & dynamics at reduced volume. Finally, the qualities of grainlessness, smoothness, warmth & relaxation, are in no way unreconciled to improvements in treble resolution & air, and punch. Great dynamics is the quality that binds everything together. It fits the instrument's body within the boundary of its image & delivers impact approaching live performance. You sense that it's the intruments that are jumping, not the amplifier. The acid test for live performance is bass control. Almost all amps fail to communicate accurate texture in the bass region.
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