Crossover-less Speakers

All,
I listened to some Omegas over the weekend and was very, very impressed. And these were not the new hemp drivers. I don't recall the models but one was a paper cone drive. It was very impressive but the lack of bass was not for me. I listened to a second pair that did not have the paper cone and the bass was fantastic. It was less efficient than the paper coned system but I was pleased with the sound. Both systems had the 4.5" driver. Seems I will be joining the ranks of the crossover-less spkr systems. I haven't decided on the Omegas yet. I want to hear at least a couple more brands before I decide. Does anyone have experience with Decware loudspeakers?

Macrojack, you disclosed to probably everyone reading this thread except for me an affiliation that they didn't previously know about. And you disclosed to me how long ago it started. That's disclosing SOMETHING, dude.

Here are my responses to your eight points:

1. You have a formal business relationship with Zu. It began fifteen months ago, whether verbally or by written contract it doesn't matter.

2. You do not have to stock inventory to have a business relationship with Zu.

3. Whether or not you broker a deal for Zu, you stand to possibly benefit from it. Deal broker isn't the role you were asked to play anyway.

4. You may not have been given referrals by the manufacturer so far, but isn't that the whole purpose of your being a Zu Listening Post? Let's see what Zu themselves told 6moons editor Srajan Ebaen about what's expected of YOU as a Zu Listening Post:

"...[P]rospective Zu customers will eventually enjoy a few choice and dedicated Zu listening posts across the country. They promise to be a few cuts above the worn-out retailers who have defeatedly transitioned into Home Theater. Instead, these posts are envisioned to reintroduce the kind of add-on service which previously set apart the boutique High-End shops from the chain stores. The service fees paid to these facilitators by the manufacturer will remain well below standard dealer margins." ( http://www.sixmoons.com/industryfeatures/zutour/zutour.html , bottom of page)

Did you catch that? You are supposed to "reintroduce the kind of add-on service which previously set apart the boutique High-End shops from the chain stores." That's being a dealer, dude, and the only reason your fees are low is because you have no start-up costs!!

5. If you were not trying to conceal your affiliaton with Zu, why didn't you start disclosing it routinely FIFTEEN MONTHS AGO? Did you REALLY think nobody would care? How about you start a thread on the subject right now and let's find out if anybody cares? Would you care if I was repeatedly and religiously plugging Goldmund at virtually every opportunity without revealing that I stood to possibly benefit, even if I never actively solicited business or actually made any money from my actions? How about if I repeatedly badmouthed Zu as one of the brands that was clearly inferior to Goldmund?

6. Whether or not you have made or ever will make any money off of Zu has nothing to do with whether or not you have a business affiliation with Zu. The agreement is the affiliation.

7. I didn't accuse you of soliciting business for yourself. I accused you of failing to disclose your industry affiliaton with the company you were promoting while you were actively putting down other companies. Which apparently you have been doing for fifteen months.

8. I do not doubt your sincerity. I feel the same way about most if not all of the products I've chosen to invest my money and time and energy in. So do most dealers, whether our stakes are large because we've bought inventory and opened stores, or small because we don't buy inventory and only get a small percentage as a fee.

Macrojack, you're not a civilian anymore. You have an industry affiliation. You signed up for a team, dude. If you truly believed that you had no industry affiliation, then why did you admit to it over on Audio Circle, and why do your words to that effect accompany your every post over there?

Jack Dotson, are you affiliated with Zu? 213cobra, are you affiliated with Zu? No one should have to ask this sort of question at this site - we should all know when we are hearing from people who have an industry affiliation because they should make it known. The rest of us play by that rule, and if we don't we should.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Macrojack, I really think that all you did was a little bit of questionable judgment. I'm swatting flies with hammers here because I want you to see how your actions could be interpreted. I hope you'll reconsider your policy of non-disclosure, especially when you are being critical of competing brands. We don't get to take free swings at your products, and you shouldn't get to take free swings at ours.

Duke
lots of industry affiliations

Sorry about taking your thread on a tangent there.

I used to be an Omega dealer, but the only models I ever had were those with the light-yellow coned Fostex drivers. When I started doing my own thing - which was conceptually fairly similar - I discontinued being an Omega dealer because it wasn't right for me to be competing against one of the companies I represented. But I think very highly of Louis Chochos and of his designs. The man is a prince.

I don't know exactly which model you're referring to as not having a paper cone, but in a given box size lower efficiency = deeper or louder bass (assuming competent design). In my earlier post I misjudged where you were aiming for in efficiency and maybe a few other things. I can't say the Omegas are the best in their price ballpark because I haven't heard everything in their price ballpark, but they can do some things incredibly well.

Now there are a couple of tricks that you may need to apply to get good bass out of a speaker like the Omegas. The first is, use short stands. The closer to the floor they sit, the more boundary reinforcement they get. They'll image better taking advantage of floor reinforcement than if you have to move 'em back against the "front" wall for boundary reinforcement, so save the up-against-the-wall placement as more of a last resort. Finally, feel free to move your listening position forwards or (more likely) backwards, closer to the "rear" wall, to improve the bass response that you experience.

Most single-driver speakers are a little bit "hot" on-axis, so you might want to listen from five to maybe fifteen degrees off-axis. Of course experimenting will tell you, but keep in mind that you can use toe-in sort of like a treble tone-control with a fullrange driver.

I can't comment on the Decwares because I have zero experience with them.

Here's a link to Omega's forum over on another site:

www.audiocircle.com/circles/in...

Best of luck in your quest,

Duke

Duke - You are hanging heavy on a fragile thread. Yes, Yes, Yes, there is a remote chance that somebody will read one of my positive comments about Zu and contact me for an opportunity to come to my house in Fruita, Colorado. I don't have a store, I don't have a dedicated listening room and I don't have a website.
Did you get that part about my house? No one who reads anything I say can provide me with a commission opportunity unless they come to my house in Fruita, Colorado. Fruita, Colorado.

Since I live 300 miles from the Zu factory, you may as well go there as come here unless you live in Denver or somewhere in the Colorado mountains. It is not impossible but it is an extreme longshot that has not occurred. If anybody out there wants to prove me wrong about how extremely obscure this is, I will be happy to take the opportunity to eat my words.

This accusation is absurd in the extreme. My declaration on Audio Circle exists over there because of the same kind of overly ambitious vigilante finger pointing that is taking place here.

I'm probably famous for my Zu endorsements by now and it should be pretty obvious that I am not trying to sneak up on anybody. I also said nothing negative about those other brands. The guy who started this thread asked to know what other speakers we changed from or previously owned, so I listed a few.

You're really trying to make something from nothing here.

Mesa County comprises 3,340 square miles. It has a population of about 125,000 people. Besides myself, only Tom Merrill reads Audiogon. I have put forth inquiries in the past and found no one else. I have typed local zip codes into the search square and come up empty. During the 80s when high end audio was blooming throughout the U.S. this area was in the deepest of Depressions due to the big pullout of Exxon and Shell from their oil shale exploration. People left their keys in the mailbox and drove away. No high end audio then and none now. I have no local market. It's a joke at Zu. Nobody expects me to make a nickel off of my Zu affiliation except you. So please tell me how my endorsement in this thread can bring the money my way. I've got two boys who will be going to college in the next couple of years. We could damn sure use the funds. Since you see my potential so clearly, clue me in. How can I realize this windfall that you feel I'm cooking up by failing to disclose?

The Feastrex drivers and speakers will be shown at the RMAF. It sounds like they may be the ultimate crossover-less full-range driver. They are number one on my must hear list.