ARC Ref3 or McIntosh C2300/2500

This is all great information! If I could afford to, I would have two or three different pre-amps (or complete systems) here at one time to really compare.
Although I would never get anything else done ;) I don't have any good dealers near me that cary either brand much less both to try and compare, so I must buy to try. Also I still have my older ARC VT100MKII power amp, which is not bad at all, however I like the Mac 402 better with the Wilson WP6. It may not sound as "warm" in the mids as the ARC but It has gobs of clean power , which translate to better attack, tighter bass, also there seems to be better imaging, and decay on instruments and reverb, etc. I have not had a ARC REF amp in my system yet, and I am sure it would be great, but they are at this time not in the budget. Also I really like the look of the Mac!

I should ad that I am trying to keep my budget around $5K for this ,
hence my interest in REF 3 and or McIntosh C2500 range.
Thank you

You should be able to find a decent used REF3 for $5k. For that money, I don't think much comes close. This really is a very good pre-amp. Just make sure there is still life on the tubes. The REF 3 has a tube life counter that will tell you.

enjoy

Can't speak about the MAC, but I used to own the Ref 3. Wow ... what a piece of kit.

I also agree with the comments above re the Ref 5. I moved up to the Ref 5, but was quite surprised that it was NOT in a different league as compared to the Ref 3. I since upgraded my Ref 5 to the SE and think the improvements are very noticeable.

So I vote for the Ref 3 ... or if you can find an LS 27, another good choice.

I happen to agree with the comments that ARC tube gear does not sound tubey. It is warm, neutral, open and very enjoyable. Some may call that analytical, but I think the use of terms is just quibbling about taste.

If your budget permits, I would think about upgrading your phono pre to the PH-7. Forget the PH-8. Not worth the bucks. Also, keep an eye peeled for a nice deal on a CD-5, which is the SS version of the Ref CD-8. I own the CD-8 which is a very nice CDP. The CD-5 and CD-8 both use the same Burr Brown DAC chip set.

But the bottom line is that either the Ref 5 or the LS 27 would make for a fine center to your rig.

We can talk about amps in another thread.

Cheers,

Bruce

A further thought on ARC vs McIntosh in general. I have heard a lot of demos with ARC components vs McIntosh components. These are two great companies with loyal followers. My personal experience, however, has been that with the exception of some of the McIntosh tube gear, in most cases ARC performs in a whole different dimension than McIntosh. I love the McIntosh retro look and their pricing should put their products alongside the best out there, but folks, we're talking about a major league difference in what ARC components are capable of. I'm really not trying to trash Macs, but let's get real here. ARC has always been about pushing the boundaries of what is possible in high-end reproduction. McIntosh has never been taken seriously in the same way. This admission has been acknowledged even by many of the dealers who carry both lines (in their more truthful moments). Personally there are other reasons why I might own Macs, but not because I would expect them to be as resolving and tonally accurate as ARC products are and have been for a very long time.