2. speakers
  3. 1211169304

Harshness in tweeters: the price of transparency?

Hi,

I can't help notice a correlation between ultimate tweeter transparency and having to put up with harshness at loud volume levels. It can be very transparent and smooth to an appreciable volume, bit exceed that and it will go harsh if you apply the materials necessary for max transparency in those drivers.

I owned titanium dome tweeters in Avalon Eclipse speakers that ultimately caused me a case of a decade-long bout with tinnitus from the titanium dome tweeters, even when using a smooth Music Reference RM-9 tube amp.

I then owned a pair of horns with lightweight metal compression driver diaphragms. Again, unbearable harshness at loud levels where the metal "breaks up".

I now own a pair of beryllium dome tweeeters in speakers that again are volume limited before that metallic glare and harshness comes in. When I had silk domes none of that happened to me, but the details and transparency are markedly down for those drivers at all volumes.

The most transparent drivers I heard were the best tweeter horns but at the cost of harshness. They exceeded electrostatics for dynamics and transparency and detail, but at that cost. Electrostatics seem to me to be the best compromise in midrange on up detail and smoothness but with a real decline in dynamics.

Maybe diamond is the answer with its extreme rigidity and hardness. But I'm not rich enough for that yet, and probably never will be.

What's the scoop on the best tweeters out there for all of what I'm asking for here, but at a reasonable price? One possibility that intrigues me is the ceramic tweeter, but again, I don't know and those are not cheap either.

I want to play horns and cymbals loud and clear, without that bite in my ear. Soft domes aren't enough for me, at least not the ones I've heard after hearing horns and beryllium.
ktstrain
shadorne's avatar
Ag insider logo xs@2x
shadorne
7,477 posts
 
I tend to think you have to think about the speaker as a whole not just the tweeter.

Agreed - and yes the Dunlavy's are awesome - and the midrange and bass and overall "integration" are much more critical than the choice of tweeter. Dare I suggest that a tweeter is almost an afterthought in a speaker purchase...
mrtennis
3,295 posts
 
the thread should read:

"harshness in tweeters: the price of resolution"

transparency is not synonymous with resolution.

if there is consistent hardness or an edge with most recordings, there is coloration and a lack of transparency. transparency is synonymous with accuracy. not all recordings sound harsh.

not all tweeters have a peak in the range 1000 to 3000 hz, i.e., the upper midrange, lower treble region.

there are many factors responsible for this situation, and the speaker is not always at fault.

treble frequencies can be annoying, so a tweeter is important.
kana813
956 posts
 
"Many recordings are hyped and all are voiced around the speakers they were being monitored and mixed on. There's no standard. That's just life."

Exactly why some type of tone controls/EQ are needed, no matter how good your speakers are.
kclone's avatar
kclone
679 posts
 
Kurt, I also have the Red Wine amp, but mine is the 70.2. I was looking at how loud you listen, do you really listen that loud? When you combine the revealing speakers with compressed pop recordings, and the loud volumes, you are going to have a problem. I have the Monitor Audio GS60s(Sensitivity 90db, 6 Ohms), also a revealing speaker with tons of detail/clarity and has been known to be bright when paired with the wrong stuff, but I find with the Red Wine Sig. 70.2 amss, brightness or harshness has not been an issue at all, even on some of the crap pop/rock recordings I listen to. Good luck and keep us posted with how it is going.
Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas
13,049 posts
 
Dear Ktstrain: IMHO I think that there are ( at least ) two important subjects on what you are hearing like a " trouble " in the high frequencies: first is the use of a step-up transformer that always makes a heavy degradation to the audio signal , here you could improve the quality of the audio signal through an active high gain Phonolinepreamp ( with out step-up transformers internal or external. ) and second you need an amplifier with low output impedance ( 0.1 Ohm and lower ) that can handle the electrical curve speaker impedance that any of your current amplifiers are even near to match it and this fact is one of the critical subjects of the tweeter distortion that you hear, it is not the BE tweeter or the high SPL, I'm sorry but it seems to me that you own the wrong amplifiers.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.
More to discover