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Dynaudio Sapphire vs Revel Studio2

After some extensive auditioning, I am really narrowed down to these two speakers. I have listned to both and truly enjoyed both. I am curious if anyone else has auditioned these two speakers? And what your thoughts are? This room is a combo 2 channel and HT, with a true 50/50 spilt between them.

Associated gear:
Modwright Transporter
Modwright LS 36.5
McCormack DNA-500

Here are some thoughts from my audition:

Revel Ultima Studio2
This was a huge pleasant surprise to me as these had only come in just a few days before my arrival and I was unaware they would be there. They were finished in the piano black and are far more attractive in person than I would have expected. I have always kind of turned my nose up at the look of them, but they really started to grow on me throughout the day. They are pretty short and have a fairly unabtrusive overall demeanor. They are also bottom ported which is nice for my room setup. They also have some very cool tweakability on the back of the speaker, such as tweeter adjustments, to help facilitate room integration as much as possible. Revel has perhaps the most state of the art R&D facility in the world, and it shows in these speakers.
Upon the first note I knew I was in business. Now we were listening to a serious speaker They carry a much larger price tag than the PL300'S, with an MSRP of $16,000, but in this instance you could clearly hear and justify the extra money. The Studio2 is a three-way system utilizing two 8-inch woofers, a 5ΒΌ-inch midrange and a 1-inch tweeter. There were two immediate things that drew me to this speaker. The first is the tweeter integration. Revel uses a tweeter with a dome of pure beryllium. The tweeter is set in what looks like a shallow depression but is really a sophisticated waveguide. I might have to say this is the best implemented tweeter that I have ever heard; it truly did not exist. Not being able to distinguish the tweeter and what sounds are coming from it through me for a bit of a loop, it was almost very freeing in a sense. It just allowed me to hear the musical presentation in a way I am not accustomed to. Again, a nod to the engineering that has gone into the speaker. The next most immediate thing I experienced was the incredible soundstage they speakers produce. These two speakers truly filled the room with music in a mannor unlike anything I have ever heard. It is almost as if there is no sweet spot. You can stand 6 ft to the side of the speakers, 4 ft behind them, and even right between them and there is virtually no difference in the sound. This is totally nuts! Having a large open room as I do, this is a significant feature. Even people seated outside the speakers will have nearly as enjoyable an experience as some seated directly in the sweet spot. In a more narrow room this would not matter, but it is a pretty unreal thing to hear. This even brought the owner of the place out to listen, and he was totally amazed as the sound these speakers could create. There is also a clean, transparent sound that is really addictive to these speakers. You feel like you can hear further into the music with such ease. Unlike the PL300, the more I listened to these speaker the more I enjoyed it. Kuddos Revel!

Dynaudio Sapphire
A few of you are already well aware of how much I enjoyed this speaker the first time I heard it. This second audition was critical for me as sometimes you can have a bit of a honeymoon the first time you hear a speaker and so it is so important to listen again at a different time, in a different mood, etc. Thanks to Charles' pictures I do not need to sit here and type about the magnificant cabinet design of the Sapphires. For me, this is one of the best looking speakers ever, period. You cannot understand how intricate the cabinet work is until you see them in person.
We fired these up right after the Revels, and I was really curious if my feelings on them would continue or change. Immediately I was drawn right back into this speaker, equally as impressed as I was the first time. Phew Dynaudio hit it out of the park with this speaker. Much of this section will probably more of a back and forth about this speaker versus the Revel, as that is really where my head was at. This speaker also retails for $16,000, so this is a far comparison. The Sapphire has a slightly more forward midrange presentation than the Revels. If you are a strict listener of Jazz, the Sapphire is the speaker for you no question about it. I listened to an unknown saxophone track and the Sapphire gave you a true sense of sitting in a small club listening to a musician, the Revel on the other hand sounded more like a well reproduced sax. The Dyn just gave you a sense of realism that was amazing. It had the sax way forward and in your faced, but not edgy or harsh in any way. It was more back in the mix on the Revels. The Sapphires also have perhaps the most excellent reproduction of a piano I have heard. However, the Revels gave a more realistic drum presentation. There was a point on a Medeski, Martin, Wood track that I had that I could actually hear when Billy Martin switched from hitting his snare drum to tapping the stick on the side of the rim, awesome! Bass is also very different on these two speakers. It is almost as if the base is on two different frequencies. The Revel extend further and have a deeper bass; however, the Sapphires have midbass impact that truly punches you in the chest. I like that feeling. The soundstage on the Sapphires is much more like a traditional speaker with a sweet spot and rolls offs when you begin to get outside of it. It still produces a very wide soundstage in comparison to any speaker but the Revel. Also when listening to something like dub music or indie rock where there is a lot of different instruments and ambient noises, the additional transparency of the Revels is noticeable. The Sapphires in now way sound congested or muddy, the Revels just take it a little further.

The good news and bad news is that I could live with either the Revel Studio2's or the Dynaudio Sapphires for a VERY long time. Unfortunately, short of these two speakers getting together and having a baby speaker there is no clear choice. The "perfect" speaker does not truly exist because every speaker has positives and tradeoffs. At least with these speakers, as a good friend of mine like to say we are dealing with flavors of ice cream. One is chocolate and one is vanilla, there is no right answer but both are good. I can tell you that I am narrowed down to two speakers, but have absolutely no idea what the hell I will choose I will have to go back for an additional listen and see if that helps. Ok, I am sure you guys are totally sick of my babbling at this point and tired of reading, so I will end here...
rydenfan
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shadorne
7,477 posts
 
Drawing the conclusions you are drawing from those two graphs, is fallacious.

However, the small differences between the two sets of measurements and those of Stereophile appear to match David's reported observations quite well. How do you explain that? Mere coincidence perhaps? I suspect not.

Do you deny that the measurements suggest that there appears to be more strength in the treble and in the deep bass from the ported-Revels than from the Dynaudio. And conversely there is more strength in upper midrange from the Dynaudio (especially the horizontal dispersion).

Perhaps comparing these two fine speakers is like splitting hairs and it is all irrelevant because the room will anyway have the biggest impact on the sound.....but if this is the case then the whole thread becomes fruitless and David should take both speakers home for an extended listening and decide - an idea trumps any hypothetical discussion!
jkalman
298 posts
 
However, the small differences between the two sets of measurements and those of Stereophile appear to match David's reported observations quite well. How do you explain that? Mere coincidence perhaps? I suspect not.

It is a coincidence, nothing more. It does tell me you do not understand room acoustics and speaker placement, as well as how both affect the sound output from a speaker. Try taking a frequency response measurement in your room of your speakers and tell me how much the room measurement looks like the anechoic measurement. If that doesn't convince you, then I guess I'll have to post an instructional on how to interpret a frequency/dB graph.

The measurements from Stereophile and the other ones you provided are fairly different, so I'm not sure what your point is about that...

If you want a good example of how much the room affects the sound, look at my overlay graphs in my virtual system of the W/P8 and the Salon2. Any differences between them on their anechoic responses, which are more significant in this case, pale in comparison to the room coloration. The fun thing is, both of those speakers can see very large changes in their in-room responses by moving their positions inside the room. This is why I suggest that moving both speakers around a bit in the demo room might be a good idea.
jkalman
298 posts
 
BTW, in an environment where you are playing and listening to music, there would need to be a 3 dB difference in the response for it to even be just barely noticeable to human hearing. More proof that it is the room coloration and speaker placement causing the issue here... In the very best of conditions, with special audio material and other environmental factors taken into account, someone can hear around 1 dB of difference (sometimes a little less, with very special factors taken care of to get lower JNDs). A demo and home audio environment with music playing is not such a situation.

Don't take my word for it, read the Master Handbook of Acoustics or something. Or do some research on Wikipedia...
douglas_schroeder
3,281 posts
 
Tdwalker, the response graph for the Sapphire is not surprising to me. I heard them with Clayton Audio amplification, T&A pre and cdp (If I recall correctly) and Transparent cabling.

I thought the low end was surprisingly good, too good for the configuration of drivers, until I noticed a large REL sub in the corner - and it was helping out. When I turned it off, whooosh, out went all the low end. The Sapphire is lovely, but virtually begs to have a subwoofer. I thought it very interesting that Dynaudio does not seem to have the frequency response listed in the specs on their website (It may be there and I just missed it; if so, mea culpa). Often I find that a company wishes to keep the attention off design weaknesses when such specifications are omitted. A $17k "full range" speaker to roll off at 40-45Hz? It's worth considering.

For whatever reason, Dynaudio seems to design their speakers without much concern to plumb the depths of bass relative to the pricing structure. Then again, the Aventis Audio Phobos speaker which was right next to it, and at about the same price point, was the same. Not very strong low frequ. extension. I would require a sub with either one. That's why the REL was running. So, with the Sapphire, to get actual full range, add the cost of a very good sub, like a higher end REL.
douglas_schroeder
3,281 posts
 
I will ammend my post to read, "...keep the attention off of design decisions (or accomodations) when such specifications are omitted."
I do not intend to convey that the Sapphire is a shabbily designed or built speaker. I felt it was a solid effort, but I look for more low end presence in a speaker above $15k. Personal preference.
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