Laid Back Speakers amps, players etc

I have never associated the term 'laid back' to have *anything* to do with perspective, i.e. the ability to reproduce the correct sound stage width and depth.

I would argue that all natural music is 'laid back' as it is absent of artificial loudness cues that cause listener fatigue.

So it appears to me that MrTennis has a very different meaning for the phrase! In fact it seems that there are at least three definitions being used interchangeably:

1) mine, I won't repeat it
2) a tonal coloration
3) a perspective distortion! -opposite of 'forward' as in: in-your-face presentation, a lack of depth.

So- how to proceed? Perhaps Argyro could comment, as it is he that started this thread? Or- can we agree to identify how the term is being used?

MrTennis, I don't agree that we should just settle for a coloration giving that nothing is perfect. IMO we should still try to get as close as we can to the ideal. Did I misinterpret your comment?

Hi Atmashpere, your description of "Laid back"(in your previous posts:o) ) is much more in tune with what I am trying to describe, be it the only difference is that I also related it to a presentation behind the plane of the speakers.

For the most part I do not agree with Mrtennis viewpoint on colored = laid back.

To me, the term "colored" is associated with the speakers tonal balance -- how evenly the speakers reproduce the audible frequencies. Uncolored = neutral tonality.

"Soundstage -- How the speaker presents the images of the instruments, image width, depth, size, and height."
Now is this the term that "laid back" could be classified in, if we were to classify a component/speaker that had a presentation behind the speaker plane?

If it is not agreed, then....OK, I am open for a change of thought :o)

the phrase "laid back" contains two words, namely "laid" and "back". i believe the context for "laid" is position of the sound, i.e., where is it coming from ?

the word, "back", would indicate a rear of the stage presentation. thus laid back would mean tat the sound of instruments appears to be projected from the back of a hall, studio, or other venue.

now, consider a recording. where is the microphone placed in the recording venue in relationship to the performing musicians ? each recording offers a different presentation with respect to placing the musicians at some position in the room.

if a stereo system always gives the impression that the music is coming from the back of a recording venue, is this not coloration and wouldn't such a stereo system be considered laid back. if so, laid back is not a coloration. if instead, laid back is not a coloration, does this mean laid back means lack of coloration or neutrality ?

one can't have it both ways. and yes, laid back creates a tonal balance in which, instruments placed in the foreground seem to attenuate treble frequency to a greater extent than bass frequencies. after all, treble frequencies have a shorter wave length.

i hope i don't sound like a lawyer.

i agree with you, ralph, that one should strive to create components which are faithful to the timbre, harmonics and dynamics of instruments. however, the best efforts of designers do not produce perfection. a well trained listener will discern a consistent sonic characteristic, i.e., coloration when listening to most stereo systems.

thus, it seems reasonable to accept that all components are colored (imperfect) and strive to minimize imperfection.

ralph, how do you minimize coloration in your designs ?

Let's take a poll. Maybe we can find out what "musical" means too. ;)

Classe30: Not familiar with Nola. ML, Maggies, IRS and Genesis are the dipoles I've spent some time with.

Mrtennis, I would be hesitant in this case to take the face value of the phrase for its actual meaning; if you think of someone who has a laid back demeanor I think you get a better idea of what I am talking about.

As to your question, we avoid coloration by avoiding synergistic effects. None of our gear is built to synergize with another piece, be it one of ours or someone else's. IOW there is no voicing of any kind. We don't have to worry about the effects of a transformer, so it comes down to the quality of the coupling caps, how many stages of gain (one), that sort of thing.

Being able to compare against master tapes helps.

Getting rid of negative feedback turned out to be a fairly easy way to get 'laid back' sound (in this case, my meaning for the term, see previous posts) without sacrificing bandwidth. That **does** mean that certain speakers just will not work with our stuff; turns out there's a set of rules about how to predict that- see

http://www.atma-sphere.com/papers/paradigm_paper2.html