McIntosh MC402 or MC501's for Totem Mani-2

You have to look at the mentality of the guys on there. A lot of them are running several Mc Amps in a HT system. I mean who puts together a system with 3 Mc501s on the front channels and more Mc Amps on the rears. These are not exactly audiogon types. Not that there's anything wrong with that, it's just not exactly your audiophile crowd. Read the threads and you'll see what I mean. Of course there's some diehard McIntosh mostly 2-channel tube types but...

Of course the 1.2KW guys say the exact same thing after "upgrading" from 501s. Come on do you really think the 1.2KW's are going to be better from an audiophile standpoint? But you'll find everyone saying so who's dropped the coin on them. At some point with all that power you begin to lose nuance. Where you draw the line is up to you.

In any case I'd recommend listening to both at your local Mc dealer if that's possible. Mine advised that the mc402 had better synergy with Focals than the mc501s. I thought the 501s sounded good but so does the mc402. Either one will have good resale.

Wireless makes a good point. It is just human nature to stick to the validity of one's purchase once the choice has been made. So long as the amp stays linear (doesn't clip) there should not be any difference in the sound between the 402, 501's and 1.2k's. All are fully balanced or quad balanced as Mc puts it, and, I believe all have the same noise floor. Depending on the genre of music to which one one listens, it can get to even a further degree of diminishing returns. 99 % of the music I listen to is classical. I would estimate that 99 percent of actual time, my 402 is operating under 40 watts (a decent A/V receiver from denon or yamaha could handle that). So the Mc amp is only really doing what I have it for, for 1% of the time. Of course I find that 1% to be important or I wouldn't have the amp. As I said earlier, to stay linear with the 802D's pushed to their limit, something larger than the 402 is necessary, but I would have a listen first. Not everyone even wants to listen at those levels.

Musicnoise,
"So long as the amp stays linear (doesn't clip) there should not be any difference in the sound between the 402, 501's and 1.2k's". But there are - huge ones at at that.

In fact, there are a lot of die-hard two-channel audiophiles over on audiokarma who confirmed the differences between the 402 and 501s.

The argument that " human nature to stick to the validity of one's purchase once the choice has been made" does not convince me if I read even from owners who still had the 402 in the house when the 501s arrived, and described differences.

From my own experience, I had a MA6500 and was told the more expensive 6900 sounded the same. It did not.

If you connect a 402 or a 1.2k, the 1.2k will sound noticably more powerful even when listening at low levels.

Why would a 1.2 k amp sound noticeably more powerful than a 400 watt amp at low listening levels (i.e providing 10 watts output)? All an amplifier does is reproduce the input signal with at increased voltage levels. The amps current capability allows for this reproduction when applied to a given load. There is no rational basis for stating that two different amps would sound different when both are operating in their linear regions. Where in the spec sheet on an amplifier is the measurement for "sounds more powerful"? In such a simple system as an amplifier for audio signals, if the paramater is not and cannot be measured, quantified, and listed, then it is without meaning. How do these people confirm the difference between the sound of a 501 and 402? By their statements? That is not confirmation, it is merely an assertion. As to the 6500 vs 6900 analogy - an argument that confirms, rather than refutes, the point of bias created by one's purchase.

musicnoise,

asserting that everybody who has bought something is blinded by his having spent money, and so automatically forces himself to think that the buy is better, is nonsense. If it were so, there would be no sense in a forum like audiogon and comparisons by audiophiles, because, in your view, everybody who has bought something is blinded anyway.

FYI: I did not buy the MA6900, just got one to compare it to my own MA 6500 - and still thought it was better.

The MC402 I bought later, sounded right out of the box, at low levels, better than the MA6500, although the power output was the same, and although the measurement are almost the same with both amps.

You seem to belong to an old school of audiophiles who still doubt that amps do sound different, especially at low levels. But they do. Specs and measurements are not without merit, but tell little about how an amp will sound. This is after all why Stereophile was started 40 years ago.

If you want to stick to the measurement-only school, that's fine with me, but it seems to be outdated.
Regards,
Florian Hassel