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The Richard Clark "all amps sounds the same" test


Okay, I know there has been tons of commentary on this issue, but I have a specific question. And it will make it clear why I'm posting this amp question in the speaker threads.

I'm curious if anyone knows if Maggie 20.1s or something equally hard to drive and equally transparent has been tested? I know planars have been used on his test, but I don't know any details.

Oh - for those who don't have any idea what I'm talking about see:

http://www.tom-morrow-land.com/tests/ampchall/rcrules.htm
and
http://www.tom-morrow-land.com/tests/ampchall/index.htm

and if you google it there is almost endless commentary on it.

Okay - but I want to test the following:

Magnepan 20.1s
Pass Labs X350.5 or XA160.5
Pass Labs Pre? (Don't care as much)
EmmLabs CD Player

Then, we need a low-cost amp. Now, the trouble is, he has a reasonable request in his test, each amp has to be used within its thresholds, so no using them at 300 watts when one is rated at 30 watts. Obviously with one clipping and the other one not clipping you will hear a difference.

This also applies to a 4-ohm speaker. So, assuming someone hasn't done an extremely similar test and can just tell us the difference, the next question is what is the worst amplifier that is rated at 4 ohms? While the X350.5 is high-power, the test could be done at 85 db, so you don't need too many watts to make that work.

This would effectively answer all the "maggies need high power to by dynamic" and lots of other similar questions. Because the test is at one db level, does one amp really push more bass out of them than another?

Hey - actually wouldn't Tympani IVs be harder to drive? Maybe we should use Tympani's :).

What do people think, is this issue still alive or has someone resolved these issues? I have to think I could hear the difference and may have my wife run some singly-blind tests for me - I don't have any of the equipment above, but do have 3.6s and an Aleph 5. See how that Aleph sounds compared to some sort of $100 amp rated at 4 ohms.

Might there be a 4-ohm rated amp in a boombox or bookshelf system? I'll poke around. Sure a single op-amp chip in a bookshelf system (often what $100 system amps consist of, just a few chips) would sound worse than a Pass Labs Aleph, which Stereophile said compared to the Levinson 300 lb amps?

Oh - and the essence of my idea with this test is that perhaps the sound is 'more similar' on speakers that are easier to drive, but with 20.1s - and this is just as important - with a highly resolving ribbon speaker - the difference might become more apparent.

Oh - also, I'm not sure if he allows me to choose the music, but I have found over the years certain parts of certain passages that show the differences of components more than others. I think that would also be important - what passages are played, as on some I would believe the differences would be impossible/difficult to detect.

If I'm just repeating stuff that can be found elsewhere let me know... Just seems like we should be able to bust this test.
lightminer
lightminer OP
164 posts
 
So, I've been looking for the 'cheapest' 4-Ohm rated amplifier I can find. This is one candidate:

http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=TX-8222&p=i&class=Receiver

I have nothing against Onkyo - I was hoping for a much lower brand, but that is a $150 receiver and is rated at 4 OHMs for use, and should sound different than the high end Pass Labs stuff.

One of the problems I'm having is:

9. The amps will not be overloaded during the session from either a voltage or current requirement.

So, part of the Maggie 'thing' is that many amps would be current overloaded, and that is part of the point of getting an expensive amp. I do have a multimeter and could detect the amps or voltage at the terminals, but don't have the electronics to determine if the current will be overloaded on the cheaper amp.

All of this leads me to believe that the issue may be in the definition of the problem - you have to at least get to the Harmon Kardon/Rotel/NAD level to drive ribbons, electrostatics, or quasi-ribbon speakers without overloading the amp. A more interesting test might be, given a really really solid 1k amp, can 10 people detect the difference between that and a 10k amp - that is a much more subtle thing, but lets start here and see if we can resolve the $150 amp vs best amps in the world first.

And, regardless, I want to get 90% or better on the test (not necessarily 12/12 as is required for the 10k - but I do agree I would get 12/12 if I were comparing apples to oranges, which is what he is saying we say about amps and if I were giving away 10k I might also say 12/12.)

If anyone knows a 'worse' receiver or amp that says 4 Ohms somehwere in its manual let me know.
lightminer OP
164 posts
 
Oem - I think your point about Carver actually possibly supports what this guy is saying. Remember, the premise here is that he will use an EQ in front of one amp to make it sound like the other to eliminate soft top or bottom ends. He agrees that some amps are softer or stronger on top or bottom end etc., and says that this is not the main thing people are saying is better or worse about amps - he says other people are saying there are other aspects of amps that are better/worse in sound quality other than what can be adjusted with an EQ.

Anyway its just a few hours (hopefully) to conduct this test this weekend, so here goes. And of course, I'm not going to frequency EQ the 2 amps like he would, but at least I want to make sure I can hear the difference between the stock forms of 2 amps.
lightminer OP
164 posts
 
Soundlabs are probably better for this as they are rated at 8 ohms, then I could very easily get a $40 amp versus the 4-ohm rated ones which are of higher quality.
mrtennis
3,295 posts
 
hi lightminer:

what differnce does it make if you do or do not detect differences ?

people will still buy amp a instead of amp b, regardless of the outcome of this test.

at best it is an academic exercise. at worse, it is a pointless exercise.

this test will have no affect upon purchases of components.
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drubin
3,265 posts
 
Mr T., what if the veracity of the claim was demonstrated TO YOU beyond doubt, such that the only conclusion you could draw as an intelligent and reasoned person, is that the differences you thought you heard all these years were an illusion? Beyond any shadow of a doubt.
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