2. amps-preamps
  3. 1426779273

Is my preamp useless?

I enjoy my current system, which is built around a BAT VK-52SE preamp. I listen mostly to digital, via a Bryston BDP-2 player into a PS Audio DSD. I also enjoy vinyl on my VPI Classic/Dynavector/Sutherland 20-20 combo. Like most of us, I’m usually on the upgrade path. For me, the next component to upgrade would be the BAT preamp from a 52SE to a 53SE. But something occurred to me. I don’t listen loud. The gain on my PSA DSD is set to less than 100 and the BAT preamp is usually set between -20 and -10. So if my volume control is never set in the + range, is my preamp doing ANYTHING other than attenuating the volume and serving as a multi-input switch? Is all that Super Tube, single gain stage, zero feedback, high energy storage circuitry a waste of money?

Don’t get me wrong. I am very pleased with the sounds I hear. But if my pre isn’t doing anything, then I’d be better off to sell it and get a very simple passive attenuator, wouldn’t I? If that’s the case, what brands and models should I listen to?
Thanks for any advice.
slanski62
georgehifi's avatar
georgehifi
10,312 posts
 
Robr45 hi, read again the OP's first post about the amount of gain he has, then read "gods" words below.

NELSON PASS:
"We’ve got lots of gain in our electronics. More gain than some of us need or want. At least 10 db more.
Think of it this way: If you are running your volume control down around 9 o’clock, you are actually throwing away signal level so that a subsequent gain stage can make it back up.
Routinely DIYers opt to make themselves a “passive preamp” - just an input selector and a volume control.
What could be better? Hardly any noise or distortion added by these simple passive parts. No feedback, no worrying about what type of capacitors – just musical perfection.
And yet there are guys out there who don’t care for the result. “It sucks the life out of the music”, is a commonly heard refrain (really - I’m being serious here!). Maybe they are reacting psychologically to the need to turn the volume control up compared to an active preamp."

Cheers George
zd542
5,339 posts
 
"What could be better? Hardly any noise or distortion added by these simple passive parts. No feedback, no worrying about what type of capacitors – just musical perfection.
And yet there are guys out there who don’t care for the result. “It sucks the life out of the music”, is a commonly heard refrain (really - I’m being serious here!). Maybe they are reacting psychologically to the need to turn the volume control up compared to an active preamp."

He makes a good point. But I don't understand why Pass only makes active preamps. And they're not cheap.
georgehifi's avatar
georgehifi
10,312 posts
 

He makes a few models of poweramps that are at or below 33kohm input impedance, this then will have a ? for a passive to drive at 100% perfect impedance match.

But to counter that Nelson Pass does make his First Watt B1 preamp which is buffered passive preamp, that is just a passive pre with a unity gain simple two transistor active buffer, which then can drive these or other poweramps that are at or below 33kohm input impedance.

And yes he does make proper preamps that have gain and are $$$$ but he is a business man, and needs to make money.

In the OP's case he can drive his PSA dac direct into his Cary amps and have the prefect match with no preamp in the way.

Cheers George
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,250 posts
 
Nelson Pass may believe active preamps yield better sound or why would he bother designing and building them? He is known for doing much personal research and much prolonged listening sessions to test. I don't believe he's wasting his time. If he felt passives were the ultimate solution, that would be his primary focus, but it isn't. Perhaps like other listeners who've tried both options, he found that high quality actives provide better sound. It seems unreasonable he'd attach his name, reputation and effort to a component he finds sonically inferior.

it seems based on his actions he is a believer in an active preamp, yet he recognizes the benetfit of passives/direct connection under certain circumstances. It just seems if he truly felt passives were the better choice he'd be building them as part of his Pass Labs line, he is not. I'd say he has integrity and chose to build actives simply because they sound better to him. What other reason would he have to move in this direction? My 2 cents worth.
Charles,
georgehifi's avatar
georgehifi
10,312 posts
 
Nelson Pass may believe active preamps yield better sound or why would he bother designing and building them?
To maximize profits, and market demand for believers of active preamps?.

It just seems if he truly felt passives were the better choice he'd be building them as part of his Pass Labs line
He does in a way, the First Watt B1 @ $1000.00, which is a passive with a simple two transistor buffer, to drive low impedance amps? If it were marketed as Pass Labs and gorgeous to look at as that line is, it may effect the $KKK preamp sales?.

Cheers George
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