2. amps-preamps
  3. 1426779273

Is my preamp useless?

I enjoy my current system, which is built around a BAT VK-52SE preamp. I listen mostly to digital, via a Bryston BDP-2 player into a PS Audio DSD. I also enjoy vinyl on my VPI Classic/Dynavector/Sutherland 20-20 combo. Like most of us, I’m usually on the upgrade path. For me, the next component to upgrade would be the BAT preamp from a 52SE to a 53SE. But something occurred to me. I don’t listen loud. The gain on my PSA DSD is set to less than 100 and the BAT preamp is usually set between -20 and -10. So if my volume control is never set in the + range, is my preamp doing ANYTHING other than attenuating the volume and serving as a multi-input switch? Is all that Super Tube, single gain stage, zero feedback, high energy storage circuitry a waste of money?

Don’t get me wrong. I am very pleased with the sounds I hear. But if my pre isn’t doing anything, then I’d be better off to sell it and get a very simple passive attenuator, wouldn’t I? If that’s the case, what brands and models should I listen to?
Thanks for any advice.
slanski62
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,250 posts
 
Nelson Pass may believe active preamps yield better sound or why would he bother designing and building them? He is known for doing much personal research and much prolonged listening sessions to test. I don't believe he's wasting his time. If he felt passives were the ultimate solution, that would be his primary focus, but it isn't. Perhaps like other listeners who've tried both options, he found that high quality actives provide better sound. It seems unreasonable he'd attach his name, reputation and effort to a component he finds sonically inferior.

it seems based on his actions he is a believer in an active preamp, yet he recognizes the benetfit of passives/direct connection under certain circumstances. It just seems if he truly felt passives were the better choice he'd be building them as part of his Pass Labs line, he is not. I'd say he has integrity and chose to build actives simply because they sound better to him. What other reason would he have to move in this direction? My 2 cents worth.
Charles,
georgehifi's avatar
georgehifi
10,312 posts
 
Nelson Pass may believe active preamps yield better sound or why would he bother designing and building them?
To maximize profits, and market demand for believers of active preamps?.

It just seems if he truly felt passives were the better choice he'd be building them as part of his Pass Labs line
He does in a way, the First Watt B1 @ $1000.00, which is a passive with a simple two transistor buffer, to drive low impedance amps? If it were marketed as Pass Labs and gorgeous to look at as that line is, it may effect the $KKK preamp sales?.

Cheers George
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,250 posts
 
So you feel you know his "true motive"? Profit? possible I would say(you can't substain a business without a profit). Or how about he honestly believes in what he chooses to build because he thinks it's a better sonic path. I imagine those customers who prefer to buy an active do so for improving their home audio sound quality, just a thought.I'd give Nelson Pass more credit for his commercial decisions than your conclusions. Build a product you genuinely believe in,do it right and the market sucesss will hopefully follow. It would seem he'd have these priorities in order.
georgehifi's avatar
georgehifi
10,312 posts
 

The OP has way too much gain as he has to lower the PSA volume (which could then be bit stripping), but is also in the negative volume on the BAT volume, which means it's not pre-amplifying but de-amplifying, which a total waste of source signal strength. It's like putting attenuators networks on a MC cartridge and then having to amplifying again, noise and all.

What the OP should do is to listen to his PSA direct into his Cary amps as this has perfect impedance and voltage match.
Then see if he can at least equal or better this by putting an active preamp or passive preamp in the signal path.

Cheers George
georgehifi's avatar
georgehifi
10,312 posts
 


So why this public statement from him (again below), and it is in direct reference to what the OP is experiencing, TOO MUCH GAIN EVERYWHERE.
He has a prefect match with the PSA direct into his Cary's and eliminating all that active preamp gain. And I bet my life that the PSA has a beefier output stage than the BAT tube preamp has, so it should drive even better.

" Nelson Pass,
We’ve got lots of gain in our electronics. More gain than some of us need or want. At least 10 db more.
Think of it this way: If you are running your volume control down around 9 o’clock, you are actually throwing away signal level so that a subsequent gain stage can make it back up.
Routinely DIYers opt to make themselves a “passive preamp” - just an input selector and a volume control.
What could be better? Hardly any noise or distortion added by these simple passive parts. No feedback, no worrying about what type of capacitors – just musical perfection.
And yet there are guys out there who don’t care for the result. “It sucks the life out of the music”, is a commonly heard refrain (really - I’m being serious here!). Maybe they are reacting psychologically to the need to turn the volume control up compared to an active preamp."

Cheers George
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