Daedalus

David12,

I listened for a while without my sub being switched on, and frankly didn't even realize it! Of course, once I turned it on I could tell it was contributing to the sound (remember I have it crossed over fairly low and with very little gain at this point), and yes I preferred the sound with it on, but the DA-RMa's were certainly not bass deficient (to my tastes) even without being supplemented by my REL.

Hope that helps some; of course IMHO with subs (and speakers too) your room and setup are going to have a huge influence on how well the spkrs and/or subs load the room in the bass octaves...

David12: In my experience if you have the choice it is better to go with a full range speaker than use a monitor and a sub. Proper integration of a subwoofer is tricky and compounds variables like room size, dimensions and construction. Even a good sub, like the Rel (I used a Stadium III for a while with my Harbeth Compact 7's) can be a challenge to work with. Lou's speakers are very coherent throughout the frequency range and I'd hate to see that compromised by application of a subwoofer. Your room, at 20 X 20 is fairly large and could easily take the DA-1.1's. Mine is 14 X 23 and open on one side and these speakers fill the room beautifully without overpressurizing the space. Rrsclyde, if you can't tell whether your sub is on or not you have probably got it set just right! I always mucked up the sound with my Rel trying to "hear" it--hey, I paid good money for it now let's hear this thing rock! Wrong approach. The best sub is the one you don't know is there. Hey Lou, how about some input for guys using (or thinking of using) subs with their Daedalus speakers?

Thanks to both of you, a misunderstanding, dodgealum. I was not planning to use a sub with the Da-rma, just wondering what sort of base I would get out of it, whether I would notice the loss of a bottom octave as comared with the DA 1. I realise the DA1 is a different line, but the Ulysses is too large to get passed my wife

I'm in favor of people using subs with my speakers if they like, though I don't feel it's necessary. In the design of all my systems I decided to not make any compromises in order to achieve a flat response in the lowest half octave or so of music, feeling that a sub is better designed for that range if the room etc warrant it.
As it turns out the systems have a very gradual slope below the -3db point (many systems quickly die below that point). I find that this helps them to achieve a very natural bass on their own as well as integrate very well with a sub. For the large systems (DA-1.1 &Ulysses) I find 28-30hz works well and for the DA-2.1 & DA-RMa about 30-38hz. Of course run the speakers full range and add just a touch of the sub. Some of my customers use subs, some don't and some have sold their subs when getting my speakers as they felt they no longer needed them. Personal choice!
Another aspect is the mating of amplifier to the speaker. As some of you have noted with these speakers it is pretty evident what's going on with the other gear in the chain. I find that the extension and character of the bass can be markedly different with different power amplifiers. Possibly the best bass I've heard in an amplifier is the new Modwright, just changing to that amp is like adding a perfect sub-woofer!

hope this helps.
thanks,
Lou

Hi everyone,

Just a quick update on my previous post. I ended up purchasing a beautiful pair of Daedalus Ulysses' with cherry finish. The woodworking is drop dead gorgeous. Most importantly, the sound is divine. As others have noted, the sound is quite natural. Instrumental timbres, especially acoustic instruments, are lovely and accurate. The bass is high quality and very natural. However, you don't get the last 1/2 octave. The overally frequency balance is very accurate.

Where these speakers really stand out when compared to other box enclosures is the outstanding dynamic range. IMO, this is critical to accurately reproduce music and the Daedalus have a relaxed, wide dynamic range typically associated with horns or other high efficiency systems. This attribute doesn't overwhelm the listener, rather it makes you aware of how it is often lacking in other designs.

I recently auditioned a number of amplifiers and it was striking how the Ulysses' provided a window on what was happening upstream. The invidual characteristics of the amplifiers were easy to discern. I agree with Lou's assessment that despite the relatively high sensitivity, the speakers like amps with lots of current and a relatively high damping factor.

I am very pleased...