2. amps-preamps
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Clayton Audio Class A amps. Need amp advice

Hi Guys,

I am looking to change my amps and for a few reasons.

First because I just upgraded my DAC from the great PS Audio DirectStream to the incredible Bricasti M1 DSD USB DAC. I love the Bricasti and it has shown that in my system it could offer me more with a more resolving and neutral amp IMO.

I am currently am using the wonderful sounding CJ Premier 12 mono tube amps. I love them and tubes in general but my speakers are the great Ascendo C8 Renaissance and look to present a somewhat benign load being 88 efficient and 6ohm but they are unique and have an internal firing 21 cm Kevlar Bass driver that is great but stubborn and the speakers I think will really shine with a iron fist control of that driver.

I love tubes, always have and always will but I grown tires of a flabby bottom which is exasperated by a unique and somewhat difficult to grip bass driver set up I spoke about above.

I want an amp that can give me as much tube sound as possible but with Grip and bottom end. I know this is a lot to ask for in the used $5k to $7k price range.

I have read and it seem like the Clayton offer exactly what I am looking for but wanted to hear from some of you guys if anyone has ever heard them or know of them or anything. Any info would really be appreciated. Here is the info on my speakers and I will also list the rest of my system in case you think that is helpful. Thanks

C8 Renaissance
Technical Data
Principle
• Three-Way with SASB bass unit (TOS Off)
(current damped outer driver with semi symmetrical band pass)
• Four-Way with SASB bass unit (TOS On)
Dimensions (W/H/D)
• 28 / 80 / 40 (without Base)
• 28 / 108 / 40 (with Base)
Weight
35 kg
Frequency Range
29 Hz (-3 dB) – 32.000 Hz
Power Rating
350 W Program (min)
Impedance
6 Ohm
Sensivity
88 dB / 1W/m
Outer Chassis (COAX)
• 25 mm Neodymium-fabric-tweeter
• 18 cm Woofer with XP cone
Inner Chassis
• 21 cm Chassis, Kevlar cone
TOS Chassis
• Ribbon-tweeter
TOS Function
• switchable (TOS Unit - Dipole AN / AUS)
Sockets
• Single / BiWiring Base
Dimensions (W/H/D)
28 / 18 / 40 cm
Weight
11 kg

Ascendo C-8 Renaissance Speakers (Germany) Speaker
Purist Audio Design Corvus Praesto Revision 2.5m Bi-Wire Speaker cable
Darwin TRUTH Pure Silver Reference 1 Meter RCA Interconnect
Darwin TRUTH Pure Silver Reference 1 Meter RCA Interconnect
Bricasti M1 USB / DSD / Volume Control DAC (New) DA converter
Tellurium Q BLACK DIAMOND Reference USB Cable
Decware ZSTAGE External Triode Output StageTelefunken ECC801S
Audio Research REFERENCE 1 MK II w/Rhodium IEC/NOS Tubes Tube preamp
PS Audio PowerPlant Premier AC Regenerator
Conrad Johnson Premier 12 Mono's 140 Watts Tung-Sol KT120's Tube amp
Salamander Amplifier Stands (2) Synergy System AV Furniture Stand
BMI Shark Jeweler Grade Platinum 9 AWG AC Power Cable
Mad Scientist PC-NEO with Power Purifier 11 AWG Power Cable
Sablon Audio Petite Corona 2.0M 7 AWG AC Power Cable
JPS Labs The Power AC+ 2M 8 AWG AC Power Cable
Synergistic Research Labs Tesla Series SE T1 AC Power Cable
Synergistic Research Labs Tesla Series T1 AC Power Cable
PS Audio Noise Harvester (5) Converts noise to light
OYAIDE RI Beryllium Power Outlets (2)
Blue Circle Audio The Yalu Balula Industrial Surge/Spike Protection
JPLAY v5.2 hi-end audio player turns PC into a digital transport.
Fidelizer Pro Version 6.1
JRiver Media Center 19 Music Software
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fsmithjack OP
712 posts
 
04-11-15: Jmcgroga

Thanks

On the Claytons M300 monos they are Balanced XLR input only!

I don't have any balanced interconnects yet and as we all know real good ones are quite expensive. More than my pre I'm trying to hold onto. I have the real nice Caras Clear XLR to RCA adapters and the selling dealer said those will work fine but read elsewhere that if I use adapters they make a wicked hum? Anyone know if this is the case or do you think the adapters will work fine? Any input would really be appreciated!! Thanks so much !!!
almarg's avatar
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almarg
9,670 posts
 
Fsmithjack, in general adapters may or may not work ok depending on the specific designs of the components that are being connected. In this case the comments made earlier in the thread by Tim (Mitch2) indicate that they will NOT work ok. But note his suggestion of a Jensen transformer, which can convert a single-ended signal to a true balanced signal pair. Their model PI-RX (similar to the PI-XX shown here except with RCA input connectors), can and should be placed very close to the amp. You could then use a very short length of XLR cable.

Nearly all interconnect cable effects are proportional to length. Therefore the short length of the XLR cable would reduce its importance, increasing the likelihood that choosing an expensive cable will be unnecessary. And of course the short length will in itself reduce the cost of the cable.

I note that the Jensen site does not specifically list a PI-RX configuration, having an RCA input connector and an XLR output connector, but I'm pretty certain they can supply that configuration on special order. It would cost a bit more than $300 for the two transformers you would require.

Good luck. Regards,
-- Al
bill_k
916 posts
 
Since your Bricasti M1 DAC is a fully balanced design as well, I think it would be foolish to use the RCA outputs and an adapter to feed the Clayton amps. If you already have expensive RCA cables I would recommend selling them and getting similar quality XLR cables. It will be well worth it for the performance gain. Bricasti uses their DAC with their amps wired directly with XLR cables and the resulting performance is superb!
lloydelee21
1,202 posts
 
Fsmithjack,

Sounds like you've been busy! Glad to see Eric was helpful. Regarding your choices, I got a PM from someone on this thread who was concerned the CJs may not have enough current or something to drive your specific speakers. Hence, why your speaking with CJ is critical. Regarding the other 2 options, both appear to have strong support here, but not having heard either...i cannot say.

In truth, if bass control is your goal (while not sacrificing the elements of your CJ you love), that is a level of sound quality that bears serious consideration before you buy. More bass control but with different mid-range tonal qualities is different...that can probably be 'guestimated' but your goals are [of course!] to have both. Have you spoken with your speaker manufacturer by any chance about these 3 options?
mitch2
4,021 posts
 
selling dealer said those will work fine
He is wrong. These amps need a balanced signal that you will not get through an adaptor.

In addition to the Jensen transformers that Al mentions above, and that I used, K&K sells a Lundahl version that plugs directly into the XLR input on the amp. Both should work fine, but the Lundahl version would negate the need for a second set of very short XLR ICs. If you do get the Jensen version, get two of the mono style (PI-RX) so you can sit one next to each amp. You will then need two quite short XLR to XLR ICs to run from the transformers to your amps. I have a pair if you are interested. Otherwise, try the Lundahl version that doesn't need the second IC.

Also, there are impedance matching issues with the transformers. The issue benefits from the Clayton's high'ish 100K ohm input impedance but you should still try to use a preamp that has a low output impedance. I was mostly using a Tom Evans preamp with an output impedance of less than 100 ohms but I did also use a Lamm LL2 and it sounded very good as well. If specific questions about matching with your gear, talk to the folks at Jensen or K&K.
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