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"Frightening" or "Relaxing" sound quality?

What do I mean by that?
Not that I wish to start a new controversy --- knowing some of the usual contributors, it may not be entirely avoidable, so let’s see what gives.

Following some of the threads on the –ultimate- ‘phase-coherent’, 'time-coherent' or yet better, both, 1st order up to steep slopes, an so on, cross-over opinions, I have these notions. So let me explain.

One quite well known ‘maverick’ (done some picking on some other well known reviewer, posting it on his site...), somewhere he states: a good speaker must have the ability 'to frighten you' --- his words, and I can see/hear what he means, at least I think so.

Some other dealer in Wilson’s marvellous products (he's around my place), tells me he can only listen for about ½ hour than he is 'exhausted' --- i.e. too intense to do any longer listening…

Nobody is talking about ‘listening fatigue’ actually, it is more an emotional fatigue, as far as I get it.

Now me, I go to a life orchestra listening and emerge pretty well ‘up-lifted’, never had any fatigue (maybe my bottom, when it got a bit too lengthy) never mind emotional fatigue! Gimme Mahler, Stravinsky, Mussorgsky, heavy (classical) metal, whow --- upliftment. Never occur to me run away, get uneasy, GET FRIGHTENED!

I clearly get ‘emotional fatigue’ listening to some types of speakers!
What were they?
I think they had one thing in common: They all where, in some way, VERY realistic, but they also had something else in common, --- they did not, as it seems, stick too well to a reasonably flat amplitude response… ah ha.

What this design regimen seems to produce during listening to keep on making you jump? Apparently always something rather unexpected in happening! Now we do also know what makes us (as humans) ‘jump’: it is some unexpected ‘something’ coming ‘out of the bush’ a snapping branch, some sort of VERY REAL sound, that does not quite go along with the general set of the acoustic environment.

Now take some ‘benign, dumb’ kind of speaker, it has so little in REALISTIC sound to offer, it just can’t frighten you. You (your instinct, subconscious) just don’t ‘buy’ into it.
Now take a VERY realistic sound-producer (the ones that can make you jump) and mess with the amplitude response, what you are getting is this on the edge of your seat reaction. The VERY opposite of what a lot of music has as its intention. (Not like AV ‘Apocalypse now’ kind of chopper going to attack you from any old angle, top, behind, etc.)

Lastly, has this something to do with why lots of folks perhaps shy away from these sort of designs?
I have listened to my share and I shy away, because as REAL everything seems to be in the reproduction, it keeps me in a state of inner tension, apprehension --- even listening to some Mozart Chamber music, as there is ALWAYS something very REAL, but somehow unsettling going on.

It might just explain why some of these designs don’t ‘cut the mustard’ and not survive in the long run. Unless, and open to opinion, that we are (most of us anyway) so messed up and transistor-radio-sound-corrupted that we seem ‘unworthy of these ‘superior’ audio-designs.
I honestly don’t think so, but you may have it otherwise, as they say YMMV.

I thought it is of value to bring this up, since it does not ever seem to be part of any of the more ‘technical’ discussions ---- the human ‘fright/flight’ element in ignoring proper FLAT amplitude response in favour of minimal insertion losses, or proper impedance compensation, notch filtering, et al, just so to obtain this form of stressful realism.

It might be also something to do with age, a much younger listener (in my experience) likes to be stirred up, and emotionally knocked all over the place ---- listening to Baroque music like bungee jumping?!
Maybe.
It be interesting to hear if it is just my form of ‘over-sensitiveness’ that brings forth this subject.
Best,
Axel
axelwahl
newbee
4,778 posts
 
I have a problem with the concept of 'frightening' music. You may like it or not, you may understand it or not, but frightening? I don't know..........

Perhaps the problem underlying the differentiation between a 'system' which is realistic (reminicient of the sound of a live event) and a system which is either fatiguing or 'frightening' is the way in which the signal is created before it hits the speaker as much as whether the speaker reproduces it accurately.

For me phase coherrent, flat frequemce response, speakers are a false god. Not that the goal is bad, but there is just so much more involved than that. I think a lot more of the comments about the ultimate sound of high resoolution speakers (and upstream components) has more to do with getting the rise and fall times and distortion issues resolved.

Re flat frequency response - go to a live unamplified event some time and walk around the acoustic and notice how the sound changes, tonally, from location to location. Flat frequency response doesn't exist there. It is totally a moving target. So all your speakers and set up do for you is give you a hall location based sound that your prefer.

If I were to speculate about what might render some audio equipment to sound superficially flat and accurate but ultimately frightening, I would look at too short a decay in the signal from something in the electronic's chain. Often, in the pursuit of 'transparency/resolution' it is obtained by electronics manufacturers by manipulating with the natural decay which rolls off too sharply and makes the sound very sharp. The frequency response could be flat, rolled, or bumped up, but the the sterility induced by shortening decay will not go away. Now having to listen to that would be a frightening prospect.

Now I'll go have some coffee to wake up and read the Times to go back to sleep. :-)
axelwahl OP
788 posts
 
Hi all,
thanks for the kind reflections and feed back. Not easy to get stuff like this across, without being perceived a bit ‘cuckoo?”

I could name (but of course won't) some much banded about brands in this here circle that have this particular property of causing, let’s call it ‘emotional unease’. (Not my idea of music I have to admit)

I also did not talk about frightening MUSIC --- I said frightening SOUND!
Of course the sound MAKES the music, I hope this is not just semantics.

The quality of this type of 'alignments' seems to be having too much REAL UN-REALNESS.

I never, repeat NEVER, experience such at a live event. So it is not lack of decay as suggested, that just makes everything dead and dry, and pointy in the face --- no. What I try to get at, is this incredibly well responding alignment, which then starts to confront you with almost subliminal false, UN-REAL detail, and I have only one explanation, which is this blend of a 'jumpy' amplitude behaviour coupled with a fantastically real reproduction quality, some sort of contradiction it sound, but it is not.
It is just a different, much more subliminal kind of distortion when it occurs. Why should the sound of a violin make you jump? Even percussions, ever get jumped at like that in a live situation? No, unless in some nightmare, or when some totally unexpected something (a robber) goes for you --- the breaking twig, the ‘unrelated’ sound-bite in the setting.

So the next issue, hasn’t it come up already? Would be immediacy, yeah, that seems to have something to it. The ear does not listen like a microphone, now get that 100% micro info at great immediacy WITH a jumped-up amplitude ---- this all happens so fast you can’t really hear it, but it effects your nervous system all the same.

So this incredibly well produced, in phase, in time, sound information then also contains some subtle but nasty amplitude-over-accentuations and it is that, which is actually more perceived than consciously heard.

It this, that makes you somehow uneasy after a pretty short time (maybe not every one, and maybe just what's needed, hurray... not me obviously).
So this GREAT speaker does something, somehow unpleasant, can’t say what --- but it’s not for you. It sort of scares you, sounds stupid, but that’s what it is.

I had of these in my room and they would make me almost sick, kind of aggressive (frightened) in a very short interval. Now some folks may know what I talk about, then the Audio-Doctor comes and tells you, if you listen long enough you’ll like them….
Like: Doctor this medicine does me no good, -- nah just take it long enough and you’ll be really fine.
Not for me, really not for me. If it tastes bad it is bad. If it makes me feel… you know then.

Ok, there you are.
Axel
unsound
7,335 posts
 
I we are indeed talking about the same thing, I have indeed heard it at live events and many, many times. Of course viewing the event certainly lessens the surprise element.
unsound
7,335 posts
 
Newbee, I suspect that some people are more senstive to the "phase coherent, flat frequency response" attributes than others just as some others might be more sensitive to box resonance, or any other attributes often discussed here.
mrtennis
3,295 posts
 
i have never been frightened when listening to music on a stereo system.

i think there may be a confusion between persoanilty or listening styles and sound.

although over simplifying, there are two types of listeners, namely, stimulus seekers (ss) and stimulous avoiders (sa) .
the easiest way for sa listeners to avoid discomfort is to turn down the volumeand/or make sure high frequencies are well-behaved, perhaps, somewhat attenuated.

there are too many variables present in stereo system configurations and operations to ascribe a capability of a speaker to do something. in addition, a listener would have to be so inclined to be a very reactive person.

there is a lot more to this, but it is most applicable to a listener's personality rather than to the audio equipment.

one last thing, two listeners auditioning the same stereo system will have two different experiences.

thus speakers are not intrinsically frightening, but, listeners may frighten easily.

it's about psychology, more than components. don't take the listener out of the equation. for evrey so-called "frightening" speaker, there is a stereo system with that speaker in it which does not frighten, because a listener does not have such a reaction.
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