2. speakers
  3. 1240748267

"Frightening" or "Relaxing" sound quality?

What do I mean by that?
Not that I wish to start a new controversy --- knowing some of the usual contributors, it may not be entirely avoidable, so let’s see what gives.

Following some of the threads on the –ultimate- ‘phase-coherent’, 'time-coherent' or yet better, both, 1st order up to steep slopes, an so on, cross-over opinions, I have these notions. So let me explain.

One quite well known ‘maverick’ (done some picking on some other well known reviewer, posting it on his site...), somewhere he states: a good speaker must have the ability 'to frighten you' --- his words, and I can see/hear what he means, at least I think so.

Some other dealer in Wilson’s marvellous products (he's around my place), tells me he can only listen for about ½ hour than he is 'exhausted' --- i.e. too intense to do any longer listening…

Nobody is talking about ‘listening fatigue’ actually, it is more an emotional fatigue, as far as I get it.

Now me, I go to a life orchestra listening and emerge pretty well ‘up-lifted’, never had any fatigue (maybe my bottom, when it got a bit too lengthy) never mind emotional fatigue! Gimme Mahler, Stravinsky, Mussorgsky, heavy (classical) metal, whow --- upliftment. Never occur to me run away, get uneasy, GET FRIGHTENED!

I clearly get ‘emotional fatigue’ listening to some types of speakers!
What were they?
I think they had one thing in common: They all where, in some way, VERY realistic, but they also had something else in common, --- they did not, as it seems, stick too well to a reasonably flat amplitude response… ah ha.

What this design regimen seems to produce during listening to keep on making you jump? Apparently always something rather unexpected in happening! Now we do also know what makes us (as humans) ‘jump’: it is some unexpected ‘something’ coming ‘out of the bush’ a snapping branch, some sort of VERY REAL sound, that does not quite go along with the general set of the acoustic environment.

Now take some ‘benign, dumb’ kind of speaker, it has so little in REALISTIC sound to offer, it just can’t frighten you. You (your instinct, subconscious) just don’t ‘buy’ into it.
Now take a VERY realistic sound-producer (the ones that can make you jump) and mess with the amplitude response, what you are getting is this on the edge of your seat reaction. The VERY opposite of what a lot of music has as its intention. (Not like AV ‘Apocalypse now’ kind of chopper going to attack you from any old angle, top, behind, etc.)

Lastly, has this something to do with why lots of folks perhaps shy away from these sort of designs?
I have listened to my share and I shy away, because as REAL everything seems to be in the reproduction, it keeps me in a state of inner tension, apprehension --- even listening to some Mozart Chamber music, as there is ALWAYS something very REAL, but somehow unsettling going on.

It might just explain why some of these designs don’t ‘cut the mustard’ and not survive in the long run. Unless, and open to opinion, that we are (most of us anyway) so messed up and transistor-radio-sound-corrupted that we seem ‘unworthy of these ‘superior’ audio-designs.
I honestly don’t think so, but you may have it otherwise, as they say YMMV.

I thought it is of value to bring this up, since it does not ever seem to be part of any of the more ‘technical’ discussions ---- the human ‘fright/flight’ element in ignoring proper FLAT amplitude response in favour of minimal insertion losses, or proper impedance compensation, notch filtering, et al, just so to obtain this form of stressful realism.

It might be also something to do with age, a much younger listener (in my experience) likes to be stirred up, and emotionally knocked all over the place ---- listening to Baroque music like bungee jumping?!
Maybe.
It be interesting to hear if it is just my form of ‘over-sensitiveness’ that brings forth this subject.
Best,
Axel
axelwahl
axelwahl OP
788 posts
 
Unsound,
I think you have a very good point.
We, all of us, do have at least slightly different 'sensitivities' including our ears, good point.
But is it only me, around here, that gets the impulse to 'flee' from a room where some -odd- sounding system plays?

Come to think of it, some commentator/reviewer had to remark after the last RMAF: If it sounds (from OUTSIDE the room) that some live event is going on in there -- then I'll go in and listen. Nothing scary here, methinks.

It this quality of powerful 'emotional unease' that bugs me and I'm trying to put a handle on it.

A phase & time aligned BOSE clock radio is not going to do it, right?

It is with absolute certainty some Hi-End gear, that seems more a weapon of mass-destruction -to the nervous system- and not some benign transistor radio. If you know what I mean. But I have to concede, that some folks like bungee-jumping and I really don't.

Still, should you design a speaker all-out for time and phase and trade off proper amplitude behaviour as some folks seem to see fit?
Because THAT doesn't matter, 'cause you can't hear it? Maybe, if it sells, I guess.

Still leaves me unsettled, 'cause it's a bit like selling an X for a Y, or?

Of course everyone can build their own 'evolution' Hi-End, though a bit of awareness was never a bad thing, I think.
Axel
PS: got to bite my tongue not to mention names :-)
unsound
7,365 posts
 
Seems to me that most of the "time and phase" deciples also embrace proper amplitude behaviour, just look at the steady impedance load of most "time and phase" designs.
axelwahl OP
788 posts
 
Really?

is it my lack of awareness then?
Since the two goals always seem 'somewhat' opposed to say the least.
The more corrections, the more you 'screw-up' the phase AND the time coherence.
Every added component causes more time / phase issues. Fix the impedance, mess-up the other parameter(s). Every padding resistors screws with it, EVERY component does, even the WIRE, right?

That being said, it's the main argument why flat 6dB roll-offs are the ONLY gate to audio-time-phase-heaven --- and to heck with the rest.

I'd be glad to learn something new about it, -- what a relieve it'd be.

Been thinking about Mrtennis' comments also, i.e. that it's all in the ear/mind of the listener (my simple paraphrasing...)
Now that's the sort of relativism that makes just about everything OK. Leaves zero for any constructive criticism, just too dang save, I think.
Go listen to some 'crappy' sound, --- sorry must be you got the wrong attitude man, hallo!

Still waiting for some 'lost soul' that also gets the 'willies' listening to SOME super-duper-hyper Hi-End gear asking himself WHY that should be.

The emperor’s cloths come to mind a bit, is it really all that relative?

Thank you for sharing,
Axel
unsound
7,365 posts
 
Here's one example:
http://www.thielaudio.com/THIEL_Site05/Pages/Tech/d%26e.html
newbee
4,822 posts
 
Unsound, FWIW, the point of my statement about phase correct speakers being a 'false god' was not meant to be read as a subtle (or not so subtle) critique of them. In fact what I meant to suggest was, that if anything, these types of speakers become far more critical of upstream components and set up, ergo more likely to be heard in unflattering circumstances. Been there, done that, and discovered that the purchase of X brand was the beginning of a journey not the end of one.
More to discover