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"Frightening" or "Relaxing" sound quality?

What do I mean by that?
Not that I wish to start a new controversy --- knowing some of the usual contributors, it may not be entirely avoidable, so let’s see what gives.

Following some of the threads on the –ultimate- ‘phase-coherent’, 'time-coherent' or yet better, both, 1st order up to steep slopes, an so on, cross-over opinions, I have these notions. So let me explain.

One quite well known ‘maverick’ (done some picking on some other well known reviewer, posting it on his site...), somewhere he states: a good speaker must have the ability 'to frighten you' --- his words, and I can see/hear what he means, at least I think so.

Some other dealer in Wilson’s marvellous products (he's around my place), tells me he can only listen for about ½ hour than he is 'exhausted' --- i.e. too intense to do any longer listening…

Nobody is talking about ‘listening fatigue’ actually, it is more an emotional fatigue, as far as I get it.

Now me, I go to a life orchestra listening and emerge pretty well ‘up-lifted’, never had any fatigue (maybe my bottom, when it got a bit too lengthy) never mind emotional fatigue! Gimme Mahler, Stravinsky, Mussorgsky, heavy (classical) metal, whow --- upliftment. Never occur to me run away, get uneasy, GET FRIGHTENED!

I clearly get ‘emotional fatigue’ listening to some types of speakers!
What were they?
I think they had one thing in common: They all where, in some way, VERY realistic, but they also had something else in common, --- they did not, as it seems, stick too well to a reasonably flat amplitude response… ah ha.

What this design regimen seems to produce during listening to keep on making you jump? Apparently always something rather unexpected in happening! Now we do also know what makes us (as humans) ‘jump’: it is some unexpected ‘something’ coming ‘out of the bush’ a snapping branch, some sort of VERY REAL sound, that does not quite go along with the general set of the acoustic environment.

Now take some ‘benign, dumb’ kind of speaker, it has so little in REALISTIC sound to offer, it just can’t frighten you. You (your instinct, subconscious) just don’t ‘buy’ into it.
Now take a VERY realistic sound-producer (the ones that can make you jump) and mess with the amplitude response, what you are getting is this on the edge of your seat reaction. The VERY opposite of what a lot of music has as its intention. (Not like AV ‘Apocalypse now’ kind of chopper going to attack you from any old angle, top, behind, etc.)

Lastly, has this something to do with why lots of folks perhaps shy away from these sort of designs?
I have listened to my share and I shy away, because as REAL everything seems to be in the reproduction, it keeps me in a state of inner tension, apprehension --- even listening to some Mozart Chamber music, as there is ALWAYS something very REAL, but somehow unsettling going on.

It might just explain why some of these designs don’t ‘cut the mustard’ and not survive in the long run. Unless, and open to opinion, that we are (most of us anyway) so messed up and transistor-radio-sound-corrupted that we seem ‘unworthy of these ‘superior’ audio-designs.
I honestly don’t think so, but you may have it otherwise, as they say YMMV.

I thought it is of value to bring this up, since it does not ever seem to be part of any of the more ‘technical’ discussions ---- the human ‘fright/flight’ element in ignoring proper FLAT amplitude response in favour of minimal insertion losses, or proper impedance compensation, notch filtering, et al, just so to obtain this form of stressful realism.

It might be also something to do with age, a much younger listener (in my experience) likes to be stirred up, and emotionally knocked all over the place ---- listening to Baroque music like bungee jumping?!
Maybe.
It be interesting to hear if it is just my form of ‘over-sensitiveness’ that brings forth this subject.
Best,
Axel
axelwahl
dan_ed
2,451 posts
 
You put it right there: IF! --- they are indeed in the recording.
I concede they ARE NOT, and are made-up by an amplitude response issue.

Now I do not understand you either. Do you mean that the details you heard on these unnamed speakers weren't really in the recording? Or, are you saying that the details I hear in my own system are not really in the recording?

If it is the former I don't see how we can discuss what you heard because I didn't hear what you refer to.

If it is the latter then I'm afraid you have no basis for such a statement since you haven't heard my system.
axelwahl OP
788 posts
 
All right then,
dan_ed, this might answer your question, and I hope at least be a bit more fair to Unsound with his 'quip':
>>> Axe[l], Perhaps we [have] a language problem here, both receptively and expressively. <<<

Actually Unsound is right, after having thought a while about it.

What I have done here, is to take essentially a speaker designer's "alignment design choice"-conflict to the congregation of the listeners.

It gives me a first hand notion what Phaedrus in "Zen and Motorcycle Maintenance" did when he asked his students to write a QUALITY essays, but since QUALITY is not really definable, they got very uneasy, up-set, don't know what is it I'm supposed to, say or do.

I'm getting some of this type of feed-back. There might be some that don't know this Classic by Robert M. Pirsig and feel yet even more, hm - out of it, - for lack of a better expression.

Please, this is not some wacky game here, it was the genuine attempt to see what comes up from this forum, with regard to the QUALITY of either 'frightening' or rather 'relaxing' sound.
As it seems, and quite rightly so I guess, there is just no definitive answer ---- and so the designer has to follow what he feels is best for him/her, and live with the consequence of this decision. (Go bust if it was wrong)

Thank you for sharing, and your interest I thought it was of some value, and I hope not only just for myself.

Many thanks,
Axel

PS: If are intersted to have some more back ground on the Zen ..., and Prisig check out this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_M._Pirsig
dan_ed
2,451 posts
 
Ah, ok. I see what you were up to and why you couldn't just come out and explain it. That would have tainted your experiment.

Hi IQ or not, the guy sounds like a total whack job. ;-)
mrtennis
3,295 posts
 
without being a reactive person, you won't be frightened.

the personality of the listener is being completely ignored.

opinions are interesting, but some are wild and defy common sense.
axelwahl OP
788 posts
 
Mrtennis
right you are, yet there is a common theme, we are NOT that different after all. People 'start' get 'startled' and if for SOME reason this keeps going on in the wrong place (phase) and time (timing) it starts to make you edgy and uncomfortable rather than getting drawn into the music, yes?

Why, this would happen is really the question. My notion this far is a 'bad' dispersion pattern, in true Hi-End often the trade-off in favour of reduced insertion losses, or simply put a more 'basic' crossover design, and look no further then 1st order, with only one component per slope at its minimal 'best'. It will produce stacks of lobbing (call it comb-filtering at its best :-) and thereby produce an unpredictable, call it 'wonky' in-room response, call it amplitude distortion, right?

As with all things Audio, I agree, that's what some folks are looking for, to give you that extra 'kick', if it works for you. In my case, I'm more prone to get a freak-on if piano starts to sound like a cembalo, a violin, like a cello and a male singer like a woman or visa versa. I kind of overstate it somewhat to get this point across...

All this may not be the case at all, IF (say it again IF) you sit nicely in the sweet spot ---- where ever that is!? You can make it up then, as you move some this a way, or some that a way… have a cembalo here, make it a piano there, honky-tonk when you dare to stand up, etc.

Greetings,
Axel
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