Who OWNS Zu Audio Speakers- Especially Definition

With Virtue I need to wait for the DAC though. And waiting is so hard. I've had my eye on them for a while though, I don't think they've had any product for about 6 months. And their entry level is now $370. Not cheap.

I have no idea how their ICE class D really compares to whatever Harmon uses (which I guess is AB). Onkyo is also a class D, but their own design.

I've never heard anything good out of a combo integrated + DAC, although perhaps the Peachtree is good as it seems to get some favorable reviews.

But if $370 is considered expensive for the Virtue, then I think you'll have a difficult time of this. Indeed, get the HK or Onkyo, they can do 2.1, have built-in DACs and meet your price point. And if you're happy with the sound quality, then I think that's great, and you just saved a bunch of money.

However, I would not expect small manufacturers making things for a niche market to compete on price with mass market cost optimized manufacturers like Onkyo and HK.

There is an Accuphase E-202 for around $500 for sale right now. You can get a VALAB DAC for $250 and modify it for $50 - $100 more.

Hi Wilsynet:

I borrowed a friends very expensive Rotel DSP + 7 channel 100W class-d amp. It's an ICE implementation, probably as good as any, and quite similar to Virtue.

I was surprised at how close the Rotel implementation was to my little sonic-impact 30W. At usual listening levels I don't think there was a thing to choose between them. The speakers and the room have a FAR greater impact to the sound in my implementation, and that is also where the benefits will come to my system in its current stage.

The Rotel also has its own DAC. I don't know what it is, it may be similar to the TI Burr Brown that lives in my little Headroom Headphone amp that I have been using as an external DAC.

Internal vs External DAC made a difference. The Rotel DAC vs little headphone amp DAC did not in my opinion. Of the difference was so small it was vastly overwhelmed by problems I have in my room.

I think if I am to make a material difference to my sound with a new amp, it would need to be a tube amp of some sort as the distortion that that adds is very real. I don't think that a 15W class d vs a 100W class d (volume aside) or any different DAC will solve any of the problems I hear in my system. They may be different, but not "better" as they are not solutions to the problems.

Adding a subwoofer made a material difference. Spent a good long while yesterday crawling around on my hands and knees to place it.

I think all you've shown is that the Rotel AVR is no better than the little Sonic Impact T-Amp that you have, which is quite frankly not at all surprising.

I think most of the two channel people here (that's almost everyone right?) will tell you that the vast majority of 2-channel systems will embarrass an equivalently priced home theatre set up when reproducing 2 channel music.

My previous statement was that DAC + amplifier combos (HT AVR qualifies) are generally not very good. A reasonable point of view may be that you've just demonstrated that.

Wilsynet: I am surprised! Maybe I was naive thinking that a $50 2-channel amp would be noticeably inferior to a $2000 amp.

I think if I asked the group: which will sound better:
1) Sonic Impact + headphone DAC = $150
2) Rotel DSP + Rotel amp = $3000

They would say (2). Again, maybe I am wrong. We're comparing a $150 d-class amp with separate DAC/preamp to a $3000 d-class amp with separate (more expensive) DAC/preamp.

I think you are right though that a using just 2 out of a 7 channel amp, even if they are discrete, is not optimal, although now I am very very curious to compare it to a 2 channel ICE design. I would love to understand why running 2 channels out of a 7 channel amp (discrete) is different from running a 2 channel amp. If they are discrete it should be the same, right?