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Speakers that disappear

I have been listening once again to mbl 101-Es last weekend and have been very impressed by the great illusion they create just by "disappearing", i.e. I could not localize the speakers with closed eyes.

Listening to these speakers got me interested again in speakers that create a large 3-dimensional image, "disappear" and do not sound "boxy" in the low frequencies (with boxy I mean that the base somehow sounds constrained by the loudspeaker enclosure, especially the massive drivers in the B&Ws and Kefs gave me that feeling, the very low frequencies had a slightly "wooden" sound to it - I listend to Richard Wagners Valkyrie amongst others and drum strikes suffered in particular).

[I am obviously aware that there are many other characteristics that are required to make a great speaker, i.e. transparency, etc. but i would like to focus on the above in this thread.]

The only two speaker brands I have listened to that did the trick in this respect for me are:
- mbl (the 101-Es, dont know if this applies for their smaller speakers)
- Wilson Benesch (ACT and Chimera, not as strong as mbl but still pretty good - unfortunately a bit too week below 40hz, even the Chimera)

In comparison listening to Sonus Fabers, Kef References, B&W 800Ds, Ayon all of them sounded "boxed in" in the low frequencies and the sweet spot was much smaller and perfect toe-in was far too important for getting a decent image and illusion. (I know these speakers do some other things very well so no need to mention)

Now there are a lot of other great speakers that I could not listen to yet. Therefore I would love to hear some opinions about the ability of some other speakers to create an illusion by disappearing and not sounding "boxed in".

One type of speakers that do a good job in the above seem to be planar speakers but I have listend to both Martin Logans (dont remember which one as they all look so similar) and Magnepans (1.6 if I remember correctly) but somehow they did not do the trick for me and while they disappeared the soundstage sounded a bit flat and lifeless to me. (Both were driven by McIntosh Pre and Monos).

Particular speakers I would be interested in are:
- Magico
- Wisdom Audio Sage Series
- Rockport

At this point I prefer soft dome and paper/carbon type drivers and have not been a fan of ceramic drivers, beryllium, diamond or aluminium tweeter (in those implementations that I heard). Nevertheless there may be great implementations that do the above very well, so I would also be interested in opinions about:
- Kharma
- Focal Utopia Series
- Revel Ultima

Also are there any mid-price speakers that do this well?
kaifupaddy
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shadorne
7,477 posts
 
At this point I prefer soft dome and paper/carbon type drivers and have not been a fan of ceramic drivers, beryllium, diamond or aluminium tweeter

Then you should try to audition ATC or PMC - a 3 inch soft dome midrange with paper/pulp woofer and soft dome tweeter. Mine are soffit mounted so I have an unfair advantage when it comes to the disappearing act (not heard better from any freestanding setup).

MBL's are a great option but I fail to understand how they can possibly prevent/control unwanted resonances on those long flexible lamellas.
dracule1
1,085 posts
 
Speaker that disappear especially in the bass, Apogee speakers. I don't think I have heard another speaker that does bass so well in terms of transparency and pitch definition. Overall, Martin Logan CLS speakers disappear like no other planar (Acoustats come close). I heard the MBLs. Although they disappear, they have a metallic quality that bothers me - maybe because they play them so loud during demos they're distorting. For me, the box speakers that disappear like no other box speaker are the Ridge Street Audio Design Sasons. I've heard the Magicos, Rockports, Hansens, Audiophysics the Music, etc... I would like to hear Audience line arrays - they could trump all of the above in disappearing game.
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kops
478 posts
 
Hansen Audio princeV2 and Knight are the most dissapearing electrodynamic type speakers I've ever heard.
beerdraft
198 posts
 
The Wilson Sasha will disappear. I can't believe how not only the mids and hi's are so transparent but also the mid bass and bass. Across the entire stage right to left they can be transparent. Also good for me is they don't have to be half way into the room to achieve this. I'm paying a pro to come down and place mine but how I have them placed now is only two to three feet off the front wall. Most of the time when I've heard other speakers be transparent like this they have to be much further into the room. I heard the Kharma in RMAF 2008 and was very impressed by them as well. Now while I'm not sure what else helps the Sasha in my system as all my components are very good but I can listen to any type of music from Classical, blues, classic rock, to soft Jazz and never hear the speaker however my stage does go right to left outside both speakers. I can actually sit at my bar about 8 feet right of my listening position and still get the same transparent stage without hearing either speaker. It is quite amazing. I get nearly the exact same image and detail there.
shakeydeal
979 posts
 
I have never heard a floor standing speaker disappear like the Wilson Audio Sophia does. It is just flat out not in the room, only the music.

Shakey
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