Modernists Unite, or: saying no to room treatment

Is there some agreement on

04-12-10: Emailists
The biggest thing one can do to a room without impacting it too much visually is to treat the corners for echoslap. I own a bunch of Roomtunes corner traps, and a number of years ago, before adding Realtraps

Not necessarily the particular product, but the idea of it? I take it these are not bass traps, which do visually affect the room, but seem to allow for better bass definition (not depth) in my room than not having them.

Great topic as I am in the process of building my room from scratch. I am an architect by training, so it has been a big struggle to try to bring these two passions together.

One of the biggest challenges has been trying to work with an acoustic engineer that can think out of the box on how to creatively treat a room, i.e. using alternative methods (as to just adding ugly room treatments to walls) or to use these materials in creative ways as to make them actually as aesthetically acceptable design elements, and at the same time not breaking my bank. I've talked to a few designers that works mainly with concert halls. But I wasn't willing to spend $50k on an acoustic consultant just to start a discussion.

Modern Architecture has different approaches. Not everyone is a minimalist, which I presume Soundgasm was referring to. The best audio room design ideas I have seen are coming from Asian countries where real estate is a premium at the same time the populance are more acceptable to modern architecture, so architects and interior designers over there, in my opinion, have become much more creative. I've visited some dealers' showrooms that are gorgeous and sound great. And I've been documenting what I've seen (in person and in local audio magazines) to give me some ideas.

Back to my story. After talking to a few acoustic engineers including Rives Aduio and getting frustrated, what I ended up doing was to study some acoustics and acoustic design books on my own to gain some basic understanding of what is important and also using my architectural background to try to steer the design of my room. In this approach, the acoustic engineer is providing me with what issues I need to solve (i.e. sidewall reflections, ceiling reflections) and I am looking at different options (out-of-the-box ideas) to try to design solutions that will merge into the aesthetic design of the room. My thought currently is that in some areas, various types of acoustic treatments will be used in ways to create interesting texture/patterns on wall surfaces. In some areas, other materials/furniture will be used to act as diffusers. At the end, once the system is in, we will do a final measurement to see how this experiment fairs...

This may be just a futile attempt, or it may be a success story. We will see in about 12 months.

Fine Print: Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. What looks good to me might be hideous in your eyes. ;-) I was brainwashed with the deconstructive movement back in school (i.e. Frank Gehry, Morphosis) and the city hates me right now for trying to bring havoc to our predominately California Ranch and Eichler neighborhood. These design ideas are getting embraced in a communist country (China) and I am getting shut down in a democratic country. Sometimes I wonder who the real communist is...

FrankC

No question that the room itself makes a difference. I've just moved from a single home where I had my system on the 2nd landing that had wood floors. My turntable was sensitive to footfalls and when the system was cranked I experienced audible bass 'boom' in the room (late at night I more than once thought someone else was in the house dur to this crazy noise!). I've since moved to an apt. complex built 20 yrs ago, 1st flr, smaller room, carpeted but concrete floors, walls, and ceilings. I can jump and down in front of the TT without it mistracking now, and there's no doubt, my system sounds better in this room. Of course the biggest drawback is I'm a big believer in apt. etiquette, so I don't do any late-night blasting but....As far as room treatments, besides carpets, drapes, bookcases, etc. I don't use any but not because I don't believe they'd work, just never got around to it or had the desire to spend what can be big piles of cash to do it right!

The popular modern floor plans with minimal walls and the kitchen/dining/great-room all together certainly does not create the ideal venue for hi fidelity reproduction. Room treatments will help to some degree, but I find a defined space is better still. There needs to be at least some uniformity within immediate vicinity of the speakers. A wall missing from one side of the speaker pairing is a soundstage nightmare. I've had three walls built. Each one has improved the sound. The last phase was the upper wall between kitchen/dining and living area. Wow, what a change. I now have bass definition that I knew I was missing and an overall clarity that I didn't think required improvement. I don't plan on moving, but if I did, I'd be looking at houses with an eye towards a tempting audio room.

I think Eighth Nerve's (alas no more) philosophy had the right idea. I believe it coincides with what Emailists was saying. The idea is to treat upper room corners with triangles and the seams (wall to wall and wall to ceiling) with rectangles. To Pubul57's comment, the rectangles are not bass traps, just thin panels that reduce slap echo. If you want a visual click on my system link. You can clearly see the upper seams and maybe a triangle or two.

To Duke's point, I have his speakers, actually have had two different brands of his. He has been to my place and seen a couple different configurations of my less than optimal listening room. I'll agree with Duke on a couple of things:

First, his Jazz Module speakers set up properly are less susceptible to room issues. You have the 45 degree toe-in recommendation that greatly reduces side wall reflection issues and increases the sweet spot. In my room the 45 degree angle cannot be used effectively (IMO) and so its more like 20 degrees and near field listening, 6.5 ft. (not as close as they used to be Duke :). You also have the bass port and tweeter tilt adjustment capabilities, both of which have come in handy for me.

Second, I have noticed of late that removing some of the larger bass trap panels I had in the room (but leaving the Eighth Nerve panels) improved the sound, but without any side effects (I'm assuming in part to Duke's design). In fact I don't treat first reflection points any longer which in my room did result in the instruments sounding more lively (added reverberation I suspect). The bass is especially improved.

So while I do feel room treatments are necessary in most of today's living environments, the idea of less is more (and careful placement of the treatments) should be followed.