Cables more hype than value?

Mitch2 - I used NAIM as an example because their customers seem to be extremely loyal and believe NAIM can do no wrong.

I was on their Forum for a while and it seemed that anyone that even dared to mention another brand would be labelled a heretic - People actually seemed scared to admit they used another companies cables.

With this hobby/obsession getting more complex - if more companies offered their own cables I think you could see more of the NAIM customer mentality.

But thankfully not on this forum :-)

Just thinking out loud.

Its interesting that you bring up Naim. Personally, I like the concept of Naim, but I don't think the performance is equal to the cost. The Naim components I've owned, over the years, wasn't in the same league as comparable products from other brands. And I understand that may not be the case for all of their products, but that was my experience. Getting back to the cable discussion, I was thinking about trying a Naim CD player, so I went out to a dealer to demo one. I brought a CD player along with some cables that I normally use with it. To make a long story short, the AQ cables I brought with me made the Naim cables sound defective. They were just in a different league. Not to mention Naim cables are balanced and mine were SE.

I wonder how they would like this story over on the Naim forum? lol.

"08-21-15: Williewonka
Macdad - the investment in developing cable architectures, choosing a wire and plugs, spec-ing you own cable designs is significant and a whole different science compared to circuits and quality parts."

That's another good point. People always use the argument that cables are just wires and they're not as hard to make as a component. In many cases I would agree with that, but like anything else, there are some products that genuinely stand out. Here's a couple of examples I use that usually win people over. Cardas is one. If you search on the internet, you can find pics of Cardas cables that are stripped down so you can see how they are put together. To view it in sales literature is one thing, but when you see the actual cable, its just amazing. Nordost is another. Aside from the connectors, they have to make everything in house using special designs and machines. If you look closely at some of their work, the attention to detail is flawless. The way they apply the dielectric to the conductors looks like something NASA would make. Although, it wouldn't surprise me if they needed Al to help them.

Anyway, I could give more examples, but with some cables, I feel the price is justified given what it takes to make them. And of course, you still need to know what you are doing when you buy them or you can waste a lot of money.

I agree that some brands display very high construction quality but my question remains, "is the price justified relative to the level of sonic improvement provided by using uber-expensive cables?"

I do hear sonic differences between cables, and I prefer the sound of some cables over others, but IME the "level of improvement" resulting from changes in cabling comes nowhere near the level of improvement possible by changing source components, amplification or speakers.

When you factor in the high cost of many cables for what is really just wire with increasingly fancier ancillaries such as stainless steel collars, carbon fiber coverings, electic bias systems, network boxes, etc., one could argue the cable industry is a magic bean that has grown beyond all proportion based on the need that audiophiles have to keep up with the pack on the road to audio nirvana.

We all need to make our own choices. If, for example, you don't see the value in buying an expensive pair of cables, then don't. It would be foolish to do otherwise. If someone else wants to spend more, that's OK too. And when people make expensive mistakes, I'm more than happy to buy like new cables at a huge discount.

ZD542 and Mitch - I can only speak to what has transpired in my system, here goes...

A few years back I purchased a NAIM 5i integrated amp - mainly because it was the one amp that impressed me under around $6k and since my budget was much less it was a good fit

It's NAIM's entry level - but the reason I liked it soooo much was it's amazing clarity, natural tones and punch - and the reason for that is it's passive front end.

Moving on - Shortly thereafter I was asked to review some cables - I've gone on about the KLE Innovations stuff on this forum countless times, so I'll cut to the chase.

The Interconnects and Speaker cables have enhanced the performance of this little 50 watt amp so much that it now performs way above it's modest price point of $1700

I have compared my system against others costing between $30-50k and it's right there with them - and even bettering some of them :-)

So - are cables worth it - since my system costs around $14k - $3k of that spent on cables - in my mind - damn right their worth it, i.e. if you can get the right cables - the trouble is which one is the right cable?

The KLE Innovations cables have surprised me time and again by how much better each next model in the product lineup is.

Even their entry level cables has outperformed many of the "established" brands for significantly less cost.

Moving on...

Fortunately, I have been able to fabricate many of my own cables, but the one thing that came out of that exercise was my realization that cable geometry (or architecture) and connector quality is paramount for the best performing cables.

Exotic materials will suffer the same effects as copper if the architecture is the same old twisted pair - resulting in performance that is less than stellar.

Having said all that ZD is correct - if you don't see the value in them then don't chase expensive cables.

I would also add - if you don't have the inclination to learn about "cable science" - don't chase expensive cables either - many of them are not worth their price.

But if you are inquisitive, investigate companies like Anti-cables, Nordost, Shunyata, KLE Innovations and others - especially those that have more interesting cable geometries and theories.

Unfortunately - it is really difficult to acquire knowledge in this area - cable science is relatively new and most companies guard their secrets very well. And to protect copyright they often cite "strange theories" that sound absurd and can be construed as "marketing hype".

Sometimes you just have to read between the lines.

Personally - I have found the spiral geometry - where the neutral conductor is wound around the signal conductor - like Anti Cables Interconnects - to offer extremely good performance for cables of all types - even for power cables!

The other thing is - to get the full benefit from cables - ALL other cables in your system have to be of similar quality.

So - I'm on the "quality cables" bandwagon - but I research the heck out of any new cable and try before I buy.

But I can see why so many others claim otherwise

They just haven't tried the right cables - yet :-)