2. amps-preamps
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Transitioning from SS to tube amplification

Except during my early years in this hobby when monaural and vacuum tubes were the only choice, I've always used solid state amps and, mostly, electrostatic and ribbon panels. Recently, I bought a 20+ year old pair of good stand mount monitors (Reference 3A Serie MMC) that sounded very good with my solid state Peachtree pre and power amps so I thought it would be a good time to also try a vacuum tube amp in lieu of the many challenges associated with pairing tubes with my Martin Logan electrostatics speakers.

I started with a borrowed entry level but well reviewed Primary Luna Prologue One integrated amp paired with the Peachtree Audio Nova integrated as the preamp. I chose this combo because of the Peachtree's source input choices as well, of course, to use its remote control.

Because most of my listening is to various genres of solo guitar that's what I used to audition this combo. My first impression was mixed in that the sound seemed, at first, somewhat attenuated as if the strings had been muffled with a piece of cloth having been laid on the fret board. On the other hand, the sound was very pleasing with some of the jagged edges rounded off. Overall, and regardless of which might be argued as sounding most realistic, I'm very satisfied with what I'll call its more relaxed presentation. I like it and will very likely stay with the tubes.

Please don't read this as my support of one technology over another; first, I'm not qualified to make recommendations. Also, I'm 73 years old and have become more sensitive to certain sounds especially from percussive sources, so this becomes a factor in music choices as well as equipment.

Now that I've decided to stay with tubes, what I would like advice on is where to go next. I like this Prima Luna very much but have been advised by several whose advice I've learned to trust, that at 91dB these speakers may not be sensitive enough to get the best from the A3. I suppose what this means is that I need to look into another amp or more efficient speakers.
broadstone
almarg's avatar
almarg
9,670 posts
 
Jim (Broadstone), having no experience with PrimaLuna, Rogue, or Cary products, I can't add too much at this point. What I can say, though, is that among medium powered tube amplifiers I and a goodly number of other audiophiles do have a particular affinity for EL34-based designs (that being the output tube supplied with the PrimaLuna Prologue One, of course, although it can accept other types as well). And keep in mind, also, that an increase from the 35W capability of that amp to the 100W capability of the Cronus Magnum is an increase of just 4.6 db. Certainly a substantial difference, but by no means one that I would characterize as huge.

Best regards,
-- Al
rcprince
3,085 posts
 
I think you should also recognize that the Rogue uses different tubes than the PL, KT 120s, that might be a little leaner in the midrange than the PL. I'd listen to it first before buying, I don't think it will have the classic tube sound that you so like in the PL. An excellent amp, but a different sound.

Sonically, I think you should consider trying the PL without using the preamp, though I do realize the advantage in convenience of the remote volume control.
ebm
9,311 posts
 
I did the opposite as i had many problems with tube amps good luck.
tubegroover
2,320 posts
 
Hi Jim

I would think you would require a 40-60 watt tube amp to achieve what you're looking for. I have a pair of MM Decapo BEs, the latest. While they have a benign impedance curve across the frequency spectrum they DO like power to come alive, at least for the music I listen to including a large dose of orchestral and large scale. You didn't specify your room size which would also come into play as well. The fact that the music sounds a bit attenuated like lean maybe? Well I'm not sure what is causing that impression, maybe the integration of the Prima Luma with the Peachtree?. While I've never listened to a pair of the older MMs I would expect the electrical characteristics of the current model and yours would be very similar.

As a few points of reference for your information going forward, I have 3 tube amplifiers in house and have tried several other both tube and SS amplifiers and several other various pre-amps in my quest to find the magic combination to realize the potential of the speakers. As of right now it is the Quicksilver Silver 88 with Kt 150 tubes and a highly upgraded/modified vintage Conrad Johnson PV9a pre-amp that I gambled on mainly because of it's large power supply and build quality. This has proved a very synergistic pairing, being able to play large scale music in a very convincing and natural manner and yet play at very low levels while retaining the resolution and natural dynamic shifts in the music, the best of both worlds. I would definitely consider the Quicksilver line as well. Reasonably priced, very low distortion, quiet, simple design but importantly they are full and natural sounding in the mid/upper bass area where I find variation among tube amplifiers. In addition they don't exaggerate the upper frequencies which can become fatiguing over long term listening. I'm sure there are others that will work as well but I can confidently recommend the Quicksilver line. The mid-monos are also excellent at 60 watts and I would expect would work quite well for your stated needs plus they are quite reasonably priced. Good Luck!
davide256's avatar
davide256
406 posts
 
I own a Prima Luna Premium, bought the premium version because the base version does sound "soft" on plucked strings. The premium and dialog versions use better/faster diodes in the power supply rectifier bridge which makes the sound crisper. As to power, you can beef that up easily with KT-120 and KT-150 tubes, much better gthan KT-88's in a Prima Luna.
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