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tube vs SS my own little test

So last weekend I went to a audio show at my local dealer. But alas the dealer was sick so. I a distributor filled in for him. I have know for a few years.

So we started chatting. Last few years I have been changing/upgrading my set little by little. Different speakers, turntable, phono amp. However my integrated amp stayed. My amp is a Symphonic Line La musica. So out of curiosity I asked him what do you think. I my amp still up to it.

To which he answered, I don't know. Why don't you borrow an amp from the shop and find out. So I went home with an Octave V110 and an Octave Super Black Box.

So how do they compare? Well the difference is different from what I expected. I have never owned a tube amp, or any tube gear for that matter. The Octave is a push pull pentode tube amp. This particular V110 comes with KT150 tubes instead of the KT120 tubes which the V110 normally has. Since I know nothing of tube I have no clue what that means to the sound.

Back to the sound. First I was disappointed a bit. It didn't sound that good. a Bit lack luster. And no "magical" tube mids that I have read about. The SL was more punchy, better controlled bass, and the mids and high were not that different.

However that changed after some time. Me knowing nothing of tubes didn't know that it can take up to an hour for the tube to completely warm up or something. because after about 30 minutes the amp sounds a lot better and after an hour even better still.

The SL was still a bit more dynamic and maybe still had a little more bass power. But after an hour the Octace mids and highs are clearly superior. Not that the SL is bad by any standard. But the Octave sounds more organic for lack of better wording.

But how practical is an amp that needs close to an hour to warm up? How typical is that of tube amps? Since to me I think it would be a deal breaker. I do not always have the time sometimes I just have 20 minutes.

Do hybrid integrated amps tube pre/SS power suffer from the same "shortcoming"?

Coming days I'll listen some more and see if I can find more differences.
mordante
arh
366 posts
 
I have had many tube power amps and never had one that didn't sound great after 10-15 minutes. If the amp you brought home had not been played in a long time it may need more breakin. My David Berning ZH-270 tube amps sound perfect right from a cold start. Mt=y friend has an all VAC tube sytem which needs maybe 5-10 minutes warmup although it still sounds stunning from a cold start. The previous response which said what you found is typical is nonsence
Alan
philjolet's avatar
philjolet
2,306 posts
 
any tube gear I have owned sounds fine after 15 minutes
mordante OP
511 posts
 
The amp has not been used in some time. I am not sure if that is the problem.

I spoke with some one that also have an Octave integrated amp. He told me it takes about 30 minutes for it to warm up completely.

I do not agree that tubes flatten the 3D effect. Personally, the best DACs (Maitner, EMM, dSC) and phono pre amps (RCM, Pass, van den Hul) I've heard were SS.

The amp has a setting to see if the tubes are still biased correctly. orange lamp is bad green is good. When I turn on the amp and set it for bias it takes about 5 to 10 minutes for all the orange lights to go out and the green ones to light up.
xti16
1,525 posts
 
I owned both the V70SE and later the V110. AFTER the tubes are broken in I never had to wait more than 15 min to be fully biased. I found that when I left the unit in standby vs complete power down the biasing was a tad quicker. Now all green indicates a slight underbias (which extends tube life) but according to the Octave manual green with a little red is ideal. But be forewarned if you listen very loud the bias may increase and with all green you have a bit more 'wiggle room'.

That said I now own SS (Aavik U300) that I never turn off. With it I find it takes a good hour or 2 to sound the best.
wlutke
729 posts
 
I find the 15 minute/1 hour times typical for ARC gear with 2 hours being better as well. The first 12 minutes are a waste. Worth the wait though, like cooking on a charcoal grill instead of gas.
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