What's a contender to an Audio Reference 5 SE?

@bo1972 Ok, ok.  Your points are more than well documented by now.  You are now just bothersome.  You might be a nice enough person but here you're coming off condescending and rude.  I would be happy if you just moved on, please.  You are having 100% no bearing on my decision. 

@minorl Oddly enough Plinius recommends their own brand.  The price point was pretty much set when I asked for contenders TO the 5SE.  Sure, I would consider used.  So if the 5SE sells for $13k new I would like other recommendations somewhere in that range.  Then I would consider used of those same brands/models, ergo "apples to apples".

@minorl I wish it were as simple as "listen for yourself".  For some of us that is simply not possible.  There is no place to do that, and certainly not in my own space with my own gear.  That's why we wade through all of this and try to make the best decision we can before we vote with our $.

Smoke, Mirrors and Evasion!!!

I find ARC tubes to be not quite as transparent as the best ss, but almost always sounding more like live music to me. I call it the breath of life. That's what makes one a tube vs ss fan. I can, of course, understand the ss point of view. Neither view is the "right" one. One chocolate, the other vanilla.

Ok, at the risk of waking up "you know who" I want to tell you where I'm at now with my thinking and see what you more knowledgeable people have to say.

1) Right, wrong or indifferent I do think I'm set on trying a tube preamp with my solid state Plinius SA-Reference.amp.  So we can stop discussing solid state amps for now.

2) When I asked for "contenders" to the ARC Ref 5SE I should have been more clear that I meant "somewhere in the similar price range".  While I'm sure some of the pieces suggested are just phenomenal, some of them are 2-3 times the price range indicated.

3) That being said and all other things being equal (same room, same other gear, same cables, etc.) which of the following 3 choices do you think is going to throw the widest, deepest, tallest sound stage and provide the most distinctive image?
ARC Reference 5SE
Allnic L-3000 Mk 2
VAC Renaissance Mk3

Thank you for participating.