"...but an active preamp section vs. a passive preamp section in an integrated."
There is no passive stage in an integrated just like there is no passive stage in an active preamp (active preamps are never mentioned with the volume control called a passive section.) Definitions are being changed with respect to integrateds.
One can't use one description to describe an external active preamp and a different description to describe an integrated when they both contain the same stages. That is where the confusion lies. The stage before the volume control is simply yet another stage.
"Many peoples' experiences, however, have been that the extra gain of an active preamp section seems to provide some musically valuable benefits, such as greater "drive" and better dynamics."
I think you are refering to a separate volume control outside the integrated. (the active gainstage is still in the integrated.) The problem arises in the capacitances of the ICs between the volume control and the gainstage. That is why either one of two things should happen. One, the external volume control should have the gainstage in the same chassis, or two, the volume control should be incorporated into the integrated. This rids of the capacitance problems of the non needed ICs.
>>"With the Panache, this is almost certainly not the case.">
Yes, you are right. That is not and never has been my concern. It is better to include the volume control in the same case as the integrated.
My concern is with the changing definitions that Sam and others seem to be using. The Panache could very well be a nice component.
>>"By the way, it is possible to be active and have no gain, which is the way it is with the Placette active line stage.">
What you are describing is a buffer stage, which has a high input Z. But you still need a certain amount of gain to drive the outputs. So the amp (not trying to pick on Portal, it could be any integrated brand) has just added yet another stage, with no signal gain. (and another loop of feedback)
So what you have is a two stage preamp, a buffer followed by the gainstage. An external preamp could also have this, especially if it is solid state design.
>>"But the question occurs to me why anyone would design an integrated with preamp gain. I assume many do, so maybe there is an argument for it.">
Because an amplifier needs a certain amount of signal gain in order to drive the output stage to full power. Whether it is an external preamp and amplifier, or internal preamp inside the amp (called an integrated), it is needed. Without it, you don't get full power.
Looks like some want to change the definitions and call the internal preamp just an amplifier stage because it is housed in the integrated chassis. Just hype,in my opinoin, and misleading.
My main point is the changing of definitions, confusing the public. All audio systems contain a linepreamp gainstage somewhere, either external or internal. But if we can change the wording, then all of a sudden we can "eliminate the preamp" which sounds good, but we still incorporate those stages of gain. Seems very deceptive to me.
Why, because one isn't really eliminating any gainstages, although the public gets that idea. Afterall, you did.
Hope this helps.
Steve
There is no passive stage in an integrated just like there is no passive stage in an active preamp (active preamps are never mentioned with the volume control called a passive section.) Definitions are being changed with respect to integrateds.
One can't use one description to describe an external active preamp and a different description to describe an integrated when they both contain the same stages. That is where the confusion lies. The stage before the volume control is simply yet another stage.
"Many peoples' experiences, however, have been that the extra gain of an active preamp section seems to provide some musically valuable benefits, such as greater "drive" and better dynamics."
I think you are refering to a separate volume control outside the integrated. (the active gainstage is still in the integrated.) The problem arises in the capacitances of the ICs between the volume control and the gainstage. That is why either one of two things should happen. One, the external volume control should have the gainstage in the same chassis, or two, the volume control should be incorporated into the integrated. This rids of the capacitance problems of the non needed ICs.
>>"With the Panache, this is almost certainly not the case.">
Yes, you are right. That is not and never has been my concern. It is better to include the volume control in the same case as the integrated.
My concern is with the changing definitions that Sam and others seem to be using. The Panache could very well be a nice component.
>>"By the way, it is possible to be active and have no gain, which is the way it is with the Placette active line stage.">
What you are describing is a buffer stage, which has a high input Z. But you still need a certain amount of gain to drive the outputs. So the amp (not trying to pick on Portal, it could be any integrated brand) has just added yet another stage, with no signal gain. (and another loop of feedback)
So what you have is a two stage preamp, a buffer followed by the gainstage. An external preamp could also have this, especially if it is solid state design.
>>"But the question occurs to me why anyone would design an integrated with preamp gain. I assume many do, so maybe there is an argument for it.">
Because an amplifier needs a certain amount of signal gain in order to drive the output stage to full power. Whether it is an external preamp and amplifier, or internal preamp inside the amp (called an integrated), it is needed. Without it, you don't get full power.
Looks like some want to change the definitions and call the internal preamp just an amplifier stage because it is housed in the integrated chassis. Just hype,in my opinoin, and misleading.
My main point is the changing of definitions, confusing the public. All audio systems contain a linepreamp gainstage somewhere, either external or internal. But if we can change the wording, then all of a sudden we can "eliminate the preamp" which sounds good, but we still incorporate those stages of gain. Seems very deceptive to me.
Why, because one isn't really eliminating any gainstages, although the public gets that idea. Afterall, you did.
Hope this helps.
Steve