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Recommended amp for Thiel 3.6 -- newbie

Hello all. As a newbie to this, I’ve read a number of the forum posts, and have gotten some wonderful information and education. And, as this particulary question, Thiel 3.6 recommended amps, was pretty old, thought I’d post my own specific questions. I know so little about this, I’m sure to make some idiotic mistakes, but I’ll learn.

I just purchased a set of the Thiel 3.6s, and then read that they’re significantly hungry for both power and quality components. Although my budget is not unlimited, I have no buyer’s regret, as these seem to be a wonderful speaker set to grow into, with advancing upgrades as time goes on.

My room is about 27’x40’x9’, rug floor, combined living room, dining room; with the entertainment center in the right half of that space. My listening area is about 14’ back, and I generally expect to listen at mostly low to moderate levels. I like accurate, but I don’t like loud. I confess the system I was looking at was Denon AVR-x7200, rated at 150wpc -- but even that is confusing to me: One place says 150wpc, another 260w. The specs seem to be high at 0.05% THD, but the boards seem to reflect that many aren’t a fan of the Japanese disclosures. On all the boards I’ve read, no one recommended that system, in favor of, say, Theta, McCormack, Adcom and others. And the crickets were pretty deafening.

My prime use is for music from those speakers; but I would love to plug in HT application as well, with ultimate 4k passthrough, Network Attached Storage, Internet Radio, and Airplay and/or AppleTV -- those are the things that led me to the Denon in the first place. And even though the boards were critically silent (only one reference, and a negative one at that), I wondered if it was simply because those threads were old.

So for now, I’m kind of looking at Theta -- almost certainly in the used market. I saw a Dreadnaught unit go off recently, so perhaps with enough patience a similar thing might come around again. And see also (currently) a Casablanca unit. --But this is confusing. The Casablanca seems to return some of the HT features that I’d like, and while I’d like to think this is a solution, read the term "pre-amp", which suggests to me that this alone would never be a solution to power those Thiels. Perhaps this AND Dreadnaught. Or something similar. Or something else. --And for that matter, might the Denon 7200 itself, if not an ideal system, be used as a "starter system" -- acceptable for now -- and then morphed in pre-amp type of deal later, using it's connective controls, with some sort of quality amp downstream?

Thanks much for the consideration to this question and long post.
donzi
donzi OP
60 posts
 
I've re-read these posts again several times. Thanks all. I'm getting a very good (well, better) understanding.

And tis49, I am focused on your solution as what I really need, and think I misunderstood it. 

I think your best setup would be to get an 2 channel integrated or pre/power that has HT pass through. Then add a lesser expensive a/v receiver for the HT capability.

By my post above this one, I was attempting to shoehorn the quality part into the HT part. But you're talking about a very different thing, right? Not the passing of signal from, say, Marantz pre-amp to quality amp; but the passing of HT ITSELF through a quality system -- thus combining them, but leaving the ultimate Thiel signal unmolested by bad quality, right? I can't imagine (or don't know) of any system that might pass through, say, into the Marantz. Can you give me an example or two? Thanks much.
tls49's avatar
tls49
1,351 posts
 
Right Donzi, and to use your words, you might say my suggestion sort of shoehorns the HT part into the quality part. This feature called HT pass through, HT bypass, or HT direct has been added to integrateds and preamps for the purpose to add HT to a 2 channel system without compromising the 2 channel quality. Here is a simple diagram showing how it’s done,

http://s894.photobucket.com/user/Trolley_bucket/media/XDA1_Schematics/XDA-1_wBypass.jpg.html

This is using a preamp (XDA-1) and a power amp. When using an integrated amp, a single box replaces those two. The front pre outs of the AVR connect to the HT bypass input on the preamp or integrated. When selected, the preamp or integrated volume control is bypassed and volume is controlled by the AVR. Also, depending on the capabilities of preamp or integrated, input from CD could be either digital or analog.

It’s like having 2 separate systems that just share the main amp and speakers.
donzi OP
60 posts
 
Thanks Tis,

That's sort of what I was guessing. I appreciate the clarity. In this setup, you're talking about a unit like this, right? Where channels one and two stand alone, and the occasional DVD use goes through for full set of speaker usage. But in that picture wouldn't most AVRs process the signal before such a unit, putting in their own flavor to channels one and two? Or is it a case that, yes they would, but for DVD, it doesn't matter? 
And if I may ask a completely subjective opinion, if I went through a unit such as this one (where I DIDN'T segregate the quality of signal, what percent of quality do you think I might lose for the pure music? 10% or more like 20-30% or more? (You see, I don't know the degree to which those kinds of units put in their own flavor on a passthrough.) If it's 5%, I might go with it; if it's 30% I wouldn't. Opinion?
tls49's avatar
tls49
1,351 posts
 
The Bryston is a 2 channel preamp, but it does not have a HT bypass input. It could work in a setup like the diagram, however, with no HT bypass input it will be awkward to use.

The Marantz would be good if your main use was home theater with an occasional casual use for music, however you originally said, "My prime use is for music from those speakers." With music being the main goal, IMHO, I would not use that Marantz piece. It's difficult to put a number on it like you are asking, but I would think it could be quiet high.

Sorry, but I must stay with my original recommendation.

What sources will you use for music? and for home theater?
donzi OP
60 posts
 
Thanks.
--CD to sit and listen to.
--I'd like to stream some lossless stuff from Network attached storage.
--Apple Airplay for TIDAL streaming or the like. 
--AppleTV music Internet radio -- these two Apple choices for simply walking around the house, background music.
--Then TV's DVD function


After much thought (and guidance) I think I'm beginning to see a path forward for a Bryston amp, and even that two channel Bryston preamp. Creatively, I think I can do most everything listed above thanks to AppleTV streaming. And would envision this plugged into the preamp via some HDMI-to-RCA converter. The only challenge might be the Network attached storage, but that might be streamable via the network and Airplay. I might lose some sonic quality via those over-the-air methods (even the NAS, which otherwise would have been important), but perhaps close enough for now. --Or would that be fairly lossless transfer?

It would be nice ultimately to have multiple speakers surrounding a DVD movie, and to have the ability to select multiple rooms to port sound into other speakers. But I think I'd be fairly content with the above for years. And a good budget price point.

Thanks all for your help and counsel with all of this -- all of you. Might you have an opinion on the Mark Levinson 23, vs. Bryston 4B?
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