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Help with picking the right phono pre for the rest of my system please!

I'll try to make this short yet detailed enough for folks to weigh in properly.  This group is honestly the most knowledgeable and helpful I've found anywhere, so I really wanted to get this out there and see what people here recommend before I spend more cash!

I need advice on a phono pre, please!  The local shop (I bought local brick/mortar as I am trying to support that whenever I can) is super knowledgeable about analog so I trust their judgement, but my choices on phono pre's from them is quite limited, in particular with Audio Research in a model cross-over point with the PH6 and PH8 discontinued, which they no longer have in stock for me to demo.

Here's what I currently have in the rest of my system:

I just ordered a VPI Signature (Black Friday) deal which comes with the 3D printed tone arm and the SDS speed control module.  It's my very first turntable and foray into vinyl, and I didn't want to start small as I knew I would just want something better if I started with a $1000 table.  My research and a few buddies tell me this VPI is a very good start and could theoretically be my last turntable/tone arm. 

As a cart, the shop recommended and has on hand (important so I can listen to vinyl soon!) a Dynavector 20x2 MEDIUM, which I guess is not very common, and kind of sits in a weird spot given it's output.  But the recommendations of it being very musical seem to be a good place for me to start at $1k (and upgrade from later if desired).  I heard the combo at the shop and it sounded fantastic, albeit going through a higher-end Audio Research pre-/phono stage, and with my PrimaLuna HP amp driving top-end B&W 803 diamonds.

In my system I'm feeding a recently purchased (same) PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium HP integrated, which I've upgraded all tubes on to KT120s and upgraded 12AU7s.  It is absolutely stunning driving my Zu Soul Supremes.  I mean the best my system has ever sounded.  To add to my love of the amp, it has a built-in headphone amp running off the same tube stages that is driving my Audeze LCD-3s unbelievably well--so well that I'm going to sell my Auralic Taurus Mk II headphone amp.  Because I listen to headphones quite a bit, and I'm so happy with my speaker output to boot, I want to make sure I put the right investment into the vinyl side up front.

My digital front end is an Aurender N100 feeding a Schiit Yggy, which I can't recommend enough.  That combo smokes everything else I've had in my system, and there have been some decent to great DACs over the years.  The combination is causing me to spend more on my analog front end because I know if the vinyl doesn't beat it regularly, I will spin less vinyl in lieu of the more convenient and excellent sounding digital.

So, here's what I have as options for immediate demo and purchase from a phono pre perspective:
  • used Audio Research PH3SE for $1250, which has already been input matched (soldered!) to the cartridge I'm buying--I'm expecting to like it as I've heard it kind of gives a "vintage" sound which I think might sound great with my Zu's, but obviously worried it might not be enough performance in relative terms
  • SimAudio Moon 5.3 with external power supply (guessing around $2K)--I'm expecting it to be great given the reviews, but I have found SimAudio stuff a little dry and down-the-middle for my tastes in the past (I ran an I7 integrated for a couple of years and never totally fell in love with it in spite of it's tremendous performance)
  • crap, that's it!
I can get a Audio Research PH6 for about $2500 new, and a PH8 for about $4500, but I won't be able to demo them.  A PH7 can be had used for $3200.  Between those I feel like the PH7/PH8 would be a better step up from something like the PH3SE.  Don't know how those would do against the SimAudio 5.3.

As I think ahead to a lower output MC cartridge in the next couple of years, I'm nervous about getting too invested in a phono pre that doesn't have enough gain for the rest of my system and a low output MC cart.  As I understand it, the PH line may limit me there and require I get a really expensive preamp with more gain at that point?

So, what other phono pre's should I consider in the $2-5K range (preferably used prices for a better value) that won't be a gamble with my system synergy, and best case also help future proof me?

BTW, I love musical and big sound stage with tonal midrange bloom over detail and "hi-fi" sound and/or insane bass.  I would definitely say I'm a "tube guy" over SS in amps, but I've also read that maybe a solid state phono pre is better match with a tube amp to maximize the benefit of great vinyl.

Help please!

Thank you, Jay




parsons
parsons's avatar
parsons OP
149 posts
 
OK, still in research mode, but now with your good advice, I need to come up with a LOMC cartridge.  I'm going to pass on the medium output Dynavector at your suggestions.

I'd like to keep the cartridge in the $1-2K range, but would go to $3K for the right one if the value and improvement would be there in my system.

  • I'm interested in LO version of the Dynavector 20x2, but would like impressions from folks on that, plus the two up their line, the 17D3, and the XX-2
  • My buddy has the Lyra Kleos and loves it, but the price just went up, even further outside of what I want to spend, I think;  I've heard and read that the Delos (their least expensive at $2Kish) might be a little thin--any experience here?
I need something that will pair well with the VPI Signature and the VPI 3-D printed arm, and lean toward "musical and big sound stage with tonal midrange bloom" vs. "super detail and hi-fi sound and/or insane bass."

Other suggestions for cartridges that meet those 2 criteria?

On the phono stage front, I've bought an iFi phono to ensure I have a phono pre to use while I determine my permanent solution there, and will likely keep that for a second system when I get ambitious for a second table for my other 2 systems.  I should have a Herron in a few weeks for a 2 week demo, and you all were right, Keith is awesome.  I will continue my research on the others above, and may shoot for 1-2 more to demo at the same time.

But need to pick a cartridge first, or there will be nothing to hear!

Any suggestions?
parsons's avatar
parsons OP
149 posts
 
These are some I have been reading good things about, but haven't read enough to determine any possible synergy issues w/ my VPI table/tone arm or rest of my system/preferences.  Prices are directional.  They are "relatively" in my target price range.  Also in no particular order.

Shelter 501Mk II ($1200)?  

Shelter 901 ($2600)?

Dynavector 20X2 ($950)?

Dynavector 17D3 Karat Diamond ($1250)?

Dynavector XX-2 ($2000)?

ZYX Airy 3 ($3000)?

ZYX R100 Fuji ($2400)

Lyra Delos ($1650)?

Lyra Kleos ($3000ish but may have gone up)?

Transfiguration Axis ($2450)?
icorem
149 posts
 
For phonostage I used for 2 years the BMC MCCI which is on your list. It's very good and had great synergy with the Lyra Delos which is a very good cart with great VFM. 
I bought also the NVA SPA-2 SE phonostage which is tube mc/mm and it is smoking good. Very much recommended but with its 22 tubes it generates quite a bit of heat. 
I bought recently from Mehran of sora sound ( a class act guy) the zyx uni2 which is very pricy but will probably be my last cart - it is pure music...
dodgealum's avatar
dodgealum
1,419 posts
 
On my iPhone so will be brief. Consider an AT ART 9 to acquire a $3K sound for $1K. Take what you saved on the cart and invest in a Herron Vtph-2. I think you will be VERY pleased.

taters
1,149 posts
 
I used to have a Arc ph-5 and I upgraded to the Zesto. I demoed the ph-6 and the 7. I also demoed the Whest. I found the Zesto to be the most musical out of the one's I mentioned. Plus the Zesto will give you the extra gain if you want to run a LOMC.

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