When rap came out 30 years ago I thought it was just a fad

Calvinj,

I don't care what rappers have to say. I don't waste my time listening to uneducated people that talk about degrading woman.

If you ask a dozen well-fed, old white guys what they think about Rap, you're likely to get one answer.

Hey, ps, how about you quit taking cheap shops and actually address the points that have been made?  Show us some rap songs that are musical (I know a few are out there--I've heard some Snoop Dogg and Kanye tracks that have interesting things going in the background).  Make a case.  Don't just call us old and out of touch.  I've been hearing rap since it hit the airwaves and am certainly entitled to an opinion.  Most of it sounds to me like rope-jumping rhymes with an ultra-simplistic percussion track.  Stick your neck out, show us where we're wrong.  Otherwise you're standing by the side of the road throwing rocks at cars and then running for cover.

PS's comments are totally appropriate in light of what others have posted in this thread.

Tostadosunidos, if music is organized patterns of rhythm, harmony and melody (well a minimum of two out of three), is it at least a possibility that you simply might not have the knowledge to understand how the musicians are using these elements?  With all due respect, while you are engaging in a discourse you seem to have closed your mind on the subject.

Still interested in how you define rock and roll.

BTW, didn't western civilization start to decline during the heavy metal years?

I'm quite surprised that no one has mentioned Gil Scott-Heron, as he was clearly a very powerful, early influence on the genre. And if you think that rap is all about "thugs", or that rap artists aren't musicians, then you haven't listened to Scott-Heron.

For those who are interested, try "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised" and "In the Bottle".