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Tonearm recommendation

Hello all,
Recently procured a Feickert Blackbird w/ the Jelco 12 inch tonearm.
The table is really good, and its a keeper. The Jelco is also very good, but not as good as my Fidelity Research FR66s. So the Jelco will eventually hit Ebay, and the question remains do I keep the FR66s or sell that and buy something modern in the 5-6 K range. My only point of reference is my old JMW-10 on my Aries MK1, so I don't know how the FR66s would compare to a modern arm. So I'd like to rely on the collective knowledge and experience of this group for a recommendation.

Keep the FR66s, or go modern in the 5-6K range, say a Moerch DP8 or maybe an SME.

Any and all thoughts and opinions are of course much appreciated.

Cheers,      Crazy Bill
wrm0325
nandric's avatar
nandric
4,086 posts
 

Dear Pani, ''Axiom is ...amazing. Why is it so expensive''?

Have you seen the price of The Apolyt (grin)?  Well my guess is

the cost of specialist labour involved. But in contradistinction to

those there some cheap(er) offerings also. The Aqular which got

Grand Prix 2015 award from the Japanese ''Stereo Sound '' Magazine

is a cheaper version of the Axiom. Than there is the

Archon MC cart with ''decent price'' . Anyway cheaper than my

Magic Diamond, Benz LP S, Shiraz ( $ 5 K) but ''as impressive''

if not better. Then there are some ingenious ''adjustment tools''

which can be even called ''cheap''.


Dear Fleib, There are many ''personal philosophies''  involved

by this toenarm ,uh, philosophize. You are the only one who

is willing or capable to include even technical matters in this

''discussion''. That is why I want to ask you this question:

''What do we mean by saying that the tonearm follows the

grooves''? As far as I know there are different dimensions involved.

We have the micro dimensions in the groove while our tonearms

and TT's are certainly of other kinds. I don't think that even an

4 g. tonearm can follow the grooves. The cantilever/stylus combo

is, I thought, the ''instrument'' meant for this task?


fleib
1,124 posts
 

Hi Nandric,

In a literal sense the arm does not follow the groove, or only as much as the cartridge body. I agree, it's the stylus that tracks/traces, the groove.

Considering different aspects of record player functions, it's usually simpler to reduce to two dimensions like horizontal and vertical, but tracking is in four dimensions in-groove (don't forget time). 

Rather than add dimensions with other functions, in reality the other functions also operate within those four dimensions. If you consider the movements of the stylus as being within an imaginary sphere of tracking, the movement of the arm across the record can be seen as a separate function operating in the same dimensions of time/space. The same would go for vertical movement - tracking a warp. Neither of those functions is completely horizontal or vertical. 

A record player is a bizarre device. Maybe that's part of why we love them. "They" used to say it's like a bumble bee, by the laws of aerodynamics it should not fly. It turns out they greatly underestimated the speed of the bee's wings flapping.

Regards,

atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
12,167 posts
 
Hello Crazy Bill, Yes, I'm involved with Atma-Sphere.
john_tracy
344 posts
 
wrm0325, I should know better than to add my 2 cents here; however, before spending big bucks on a new tonearm I would suggest ditching the Sonic Frontiers phono pre. A good buddy of mine brought his SF over and played it in my system. It is not a very high resolution or particularly "musical" phono pre. Even my friend had to admit its shortcomings.

rauliruegas
13,129 posts
 
Dear fleib: """ Raul, I think your patronizing attitude about others’ knowledge on this and other subjects, is not appreciated, .......... It was you who challenged my recommendation .... . """

Even that you saw it that way in reality I’m not challenging you or any one else ( it does not matters that people see that way. ), that is the way I’m and the way many persons in my country speaks but with out trying to offend.
Ignorance is a day by day word in Mexico and means that we don’t know about that or this or whatever subject.
I never go inside a dialoge where I’m ig norant of the subject under discusion.

Btw, I only wanted from you an explanation why that combo is a good team when for me it’s far away to be it. As I said, I like to learn. Sorry to disturb you.

I think that every one of us have diferent audio/music knowledge levels as I think that each one of us have diferent kind of " natural talent " in some audio/music subjects and in others just we have not.
In the other side our audio/music experiences and self training is diferent.

That’s what overall I think and my posts reflect that kind of thinking. Now, if I’m wrong to think that way I can rectify if yo tell me where and why I’m wrong.

In this post to me I can see you are more relaxed, I hope you can understand my explanation.


""" Waiting for your arm to be introduced, or is that not imminent? """

my tonearm design looks as no endless " picture/movie " even for me and Guillermo.

There are several subjects why is not yet out there ( as a fact it’s but it’s not. You know what I mean? ).

First my friend ( an audiophile. ) and I are not dedicated to it full time maybe we take 1% to 3% of our time to that tonearm design in some days and that’s why so many years with.

Second and more important is that I’m a " perfectionist " and we want a " perfect " tonearm. The design is unique in several subjects and not " more of the same ".
What means ( for me. ) a " perfect tonearm ? one that can fulfill the needs of any cartridge, it does not matters if it is l/m/h compliance opr l/m/h weight or MC/MM.

That’s the main target and exist other " auxiliar " targets in our design. So to fullfil the cartridge needs you have to make a serious research which ones are those cartridge needs, all of them and each one relationship with the LP it self, tonearm, TT, etc. We don’t think in the tonearm for its a priori design but in the cartridge and how this cartridge is surrounded. What are the needs and main cartridge challenge it must win.

Looks easy but I can tell you was and is not so easy.

Right now I have three samples mounted in my system that looks exactly the same and where all of them have very high quality level performance but when you listen the same cartridge on each one you have subtle very tiny sound differences that only if you are trained can discriminate.

To stay there I made and still make hundred of tests not only with our different prototypes but against no less than ( vintage and today ) 25 tonearms and more than 60 cartridges( today and vintage. ).
Those tests were made not only in my system but in other home audio system.  Additional I made it several tests with different build materials and in between combination and even I tested with different type/design of tonearms bearings ( no, it's not an unipivot design for good reasons. ).
I forgot other main targets is not only to be " bullet proof " but extremely user friendly.

I have to change and refine my overall evaluation/comparation test methodology that I already had it for years.

Even if our tonearm never goes out I can tell you that was and still is a deep learning lessons.

Things are that first to be marketed have to satisfy to me and right now is extremely close to do it, so this year is the year for it.

Anyway, thank’s to answer me that way and please take in mind that I never be trying to offend any one, except who offend me first and you can be sure that I have patience about.


Regards and enjoy the music,
R.


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