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Audio Research discontinuing lower lines components?

I have looked at several components in Audio Research's line and they are discontinuing the LS17-se, PH8, and PH6.  They discontinued the DAC 8.  I know there is a new Ref 6 to replace the Ref 5se and their is a new Ref Phono 3 to replace the Ref Phone 2se coming out.  I talked to my dealer and he stated that Audio Research seems to be making their components look more McIntosh like in the Galeo series. 

The dealer stated their isn't going to be anything that he has heard that will replace the other lines at this point and that AR will be starting at the LS-27, which is $7500 for preamps.  The Ref 75se is the beginning of the line for Amps, which I know, but man are they going the Mac route with prices, nothing to replace the DAC 8 and the other DAC in the line is $11,000, what's up with this, have you guys heard anything more. 

The starting point for AR equipment is getting pretty high and the only way a newer person without means will be able to afford it will be to buy use, which could send the used prices up if there isn't anything else in the line.  What do you guys think and what have you heard?
sid1
jmcgrogan2's avatar
jmcgrogan2
6,346 posts
 
You are comparing the price of a REF-3 to the REF-30? Ha ... that's not a fair comparison. The 2008 price of a REF-3 needs to be compared to the price of a new REF-6.

Why? Why is it not fair? Look, this is simple, not complicated. Throw out all of the model names that have inundated the market in the last 8 years and ask two simple questions.

1) How much did ARC's most expensive preamp sell for in 2008? (A:$10K)
2) How much does ARC's most expensive preamp sell for today? (A:$30K)

All the rest is BS. You can't do this, you can't do that. Why not?

Again, I am not bashing ARC here. ALL high end manufacturers have followed this route. My favorite manufacturer, VAC, even released an uber-expensive Statement line a couple years back with a $50K preamp.
I would not expect that to not be compared to their top price preamp of 8 years ago, which sold for around $15K.

Most expensive =  most expensive. All the rest is glitter and distraction.
Try to focus on the bottom line, the price it takes to buy the best.

The high end companies themselves are not to blame, don't shoot the messenger. They are just following the lead of the market. In essence, they are simply doing what they are being told to do, create more expensive gear.
mapman's avatar
mapman
22,980 posts
 
Hmm I'm not sure the average person was ever ARCs target.  It's always been high end and considered a reach for most.   Still a lot of people like it enough to take the plunge.   I've never considered ten top of line stuff but would not rule out lower end still.  My local dealer offered Roguevasva lower cost option to ARC and like ARC I've never heard a bad Rogue demo.  
oregonpapa's avatar
oregonpapa
4,867 posts
 
jmcgrogan2 ..

So, when you go to the Chevrolet dealership do you not see the increased value between a new top of the line family sedan and a new Z1 Corvette? How about when you go to a Ford dealership ... no difference between the family station wagon and the new F-40? How about a Porsche dealership ... no difference between a Boxter and a twin turbo 911?  

And you see no difference between a REF-3, a new REF-6 and a new REF-30?????? 

Just asking ...
jmcgrogan2's avatar
jmcgrogan2
6,346 posts
 
oregonpapa,

Poor choices for an analogy, since in 2008 both the Corvette and the 911 twin turbo were part of the Chevrolet and Porsche lines respectively, and were more expensive than a sedan and the Boxster back then too.
.
I don’t believe at any point in time that a top family sedan was the most expensive Chevy, or a Boxster was the most expensive Porsche.

I don’t understand how you ARC fans cannot understand "most expensive model". Don’t even mention any model numbers at all. Just most expensive preamp, or amp. It’s so simple, how can you not see it???

Stop being so defensive, and just open your eyes. Again, I say that this is not ARC alone, everyone is doing it.

Can I not compare Nordost Odin cables to Nordost Valhalla cables because it is not a fair comparison, because Odin is in a different league? They are both cables.

Can I not compare the VAC Statement preamp to the VAC Renaissance MK. II Signature because the Statement is in another league? They are both preamplifiers.

Is it unfair to compare Tara Labs new Grandmaster Evolution cables to the Zero Gold series? They are both cables.
dchang1981
66 posts
 
so what you are saying then it fine to look at a $1.7 million LaFerrari and compare it to a $300K f12?  I suppose you can compare your flagship to your "spare no expenses" model in terms of performance, but pricing i'm not so sure.  especially in light of the "spare no expenses."  I hope you aren't a lawyer...
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