Tonearm recommendation


Hello all,
Recently procured a Feickert Blackbird w/ the Jelco 12 inch tonearm.
The table is really good, and its a keeper. The Jelco is also very good, but not as good as my Fidelity Research FR66s. So the Jelco will eventually hit Ebay, and the question remains do I keep the FR66s or sell that and buy something modern in the 5-6 K range. My only point of reference is my old JMW-10 on my Aries MK1, so I don't know how the FR66s would compare to a modern arm. So I'd like to rely on the collective knowledge and experience of this group for a recommendation.

Keep the FR66s, or go modern in the 5-6K range, say a Moerch DP8 or maybe an SME.

Any and all thoughts and opinions are of course much appreciated.

Cheers,      Crazy Bill
wrm0325
Dear dover: """   I like the "distortions" in my system..."""

I think that everyone likes " the distortions in each one system ". Now and trying to be constructive: in this thread and the one spéaking of tonearms longer than 12" I posted almost all my first hand experiences on the kind of distortions generated by those long tonearms or non-damped tonearms, I talked about specific distortions that today I can detect and I can discriminate between those distortions and music information.

The kind of distortions you are accustom or Syntax or Halcro or other gentlemans here I was accustomed for many years and is extremely dificult to " let it goes ".
I had and have success doing that when I learned to detect/discriminate the diferent type of distortions and very critical issue was that I gave enough time ( lñistening. ) to my brain to LISTEN  music with out ( well mantainning at minimum. ) those distortions.
For time I mean months of continuous listening daily sessions and in between making tests with the " old ditortions " till I was sure that those distortions were distortions. This long experiences makes that today I listen to lower distortions and more music information.

If you can't recognise some kind of distotions then you can't do anything about. Btw, it's more easy to do it with SS electronics that with tubes but I don't want to open an additional window for discussion on this topic.

The subject is not: I like my system distortions " but to know how those distortions sounds and if you like your system performance quality level with those detected distortions rthat is another matters.

I think that in this thread Dgarretson posted that he detected the tonearm distortions I'm talking about along the same type of sound through his SS electronics experiences.
The important subject is that " he KNOWS " and he accepted that likes those distortions. I think that he needs to give a longer time to the listenning with out those distortions.

Anyway, as you said mine is only an additional opinion.


Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

Dover, Sorry I didn't see this sooner. You accept this nonsense as correct, or just the part about a noisy mechanism?

>>additional we have to remember that the 64/66 are dynamic balanced designs  and all dynamic balanced designs always generate ringing ( noise/distortions. ) through the dynamic mechanism but two tonearm design: the MAX 237/282 and Luste GST-801. Adding to that problem the micro and macro waves in the LP recorded surface makes that in a dynamic balanced tonearm design the " normal " continuous changes in VTA/SRA/VTF  that always exist in any tonearm ( static balanced included. ) been more pronounced do that when there is a crest in the LP surface the deflection in the cartridge cantilever is higher in a dynamic balanced design that in the static balanced one that works with natural gravity where in the dynamic the mechanis always force to mantain the VTF but when is against a crest the cantilever is pushed up making a higher cantilever deflection.
In both kind of tonearm designs exist the problem but in the dynamic one is bigger. Normally when the human been goes against the mother nature fall down.<<

These are the ravings of someone who makes things up, or doesn't understand what he reads.  When a static balanced cart is riding up a warp VTF is substantially reduced. The cart/arm is accelerating upwards.  What happens when VTF is reduced? VTA is steeper angle.

At the crest VTF/VTA are more affected with a static balanced cart and it's much more likely to mistrack.  Due to the constant spring action a dynamically balanced cart will maintain a more even VTF. Back in the '80s we were setting up dynamically balanced arms by splitting the force.

Regards,



Fleib -
Just the bit about the spring mechanism & dynamic balance.
I agree that dynamic balance helps to maintain constant track force on warped records, but if you are not playing warped records then static balance should be fine. In my experience dynamic balance can suck life out of the sound. For me optimum for the FR64S is a mix of both. As I said in my post above I have removed the spring mechanism from some tonearms and there has been an audible improvement ( on non warped records ) to my ears.

As far as the ringing goes - its overrated in my view. I have heard in my system at worst a little sharpness in the upper midrange ( this is what they refer to I presume ) but as I suggested in my post above in my experience this can be eliminated by careful set up - optimising the counterweight mass, headshell selection, cable, arm board material etc, getting VTA, azimuth & tracking force absolutely dialled in.
I see Jonathan Carr uses a wrap on his FR64S arm tube but I do not like damping on tonearms as a general rule as it tends to suck life out of the sound and at worst smear the sound, particularly spongy or soft materials such as rubber, heat shrink, etc.
Raul - instead of talking about distortions - it would be more helpful if you simply described your experiences with Koetsu's which is what the op is using, and what differences in sound you heard between various arms. Which arm do you prefer and how does the sound differ in your preferred arm differ from the FR64 with a Koetsu installed in both. 

fleib: Maybe I did not explain the right way ( as almost happens. ). What are in " game " here? only the static/dinamic balance design?

no, there are several issues that play an important role about and one of them is the type of tonearm bearing, its quality and its friction levels in that bearing.

The FR tonearms were not designed with today best bearings and certainly not with a friction as low as the one ( example ) by Technics vintage tonearms of 4mg.

This low friction bearings ermit  that the cartridge in the crests/valleys tracks in very gentle way putting at minimum the changes in VTF/VTA, these Technics are statics designs and not 12" long.
In a dynamic balanced design with the 66 characteristics the crests pushed harder the cantilever/suspension in the cartridge because the dynamic mechanism always is pushing in the other direction but the LP crest has more force.

Try to find a EPA-100MK2 and make all the tests you want it against the 66 and then return to enlight about.

Btw, any of you 66 owners please go with a good " technician " and ask that he ( in your face. ) open the 66 tonearm bearing case and you will see the kind of tonearm bearing you today are " hearing " and trusting in.


Regards and enjoy the music,
R.