Is New Vinyl Exempt from Loudness Wars?

Ralph, again though even if production of uber dynamic lps need not have technical limitations, and teh makers are inclined to leverage the technology to the max (rather than make some compromises in the interest of managing cost and overhead usually involved in making a higher quality product), there is still the problem that very few people have the playback equipment needed to track it well much less not have the stylus jump the groove.   So it only makes sense to produce such a product at higher cost and profit margin since only a few will be able to benefit.  It has to be in teh business model of the label/brand so people who care know what to look for.

I thought it obscene  at first that Urban Outfitters in manhattan was selling $30+ records and cheap Crosley products to play them on.    If those records are REAL records, there will be some unhappy customers trying to play them.   Makes more sense for them NOT to be.   That way they will play on almost anything but sound Top Notch on nothing.   Least common denominator has to win.  Audiophiles beware.

Why the DR Dynamic Range numbers for vinyl are higher than CD.
One explanation. Taken from here.

http://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=Myths_(Vinyl)

Here are a couple parts. fwiw - I am finding this research less stressful, than trying to figure out why my financial investments are doing so poorly. Sort of therapeutic - temporarily...  

Effect of vinyl mastering on dynamic range

A related myth is that when vinyl has a higher dynamic range than CD, it means the audio was sourced from a different, more dynamic master, and that the difference in dynamics will be audible.
It is true that recordings on vinyl sometimes have a spikier waveform and a measurably higher dynamic range than their counterparts on CD, at least when the dynamic range is reported by crude "DR meter" tools that compare peak and RMS levels. The higher "DR value" could indeed be a result of entirely different master recordings being provided to the mastering engineers for each format, or different choices made by the engineers, as happens every time old music is remastered for a new release. But even when the same source master is used, the audio is normally further processed when mastering for the target format (be it CD or vinyl), and this often results in vinyl having a spikier waveform and higher DR measurement.

^^^^^
I asked about the software/tools used to determine the ratings in that DR database earlier. The above states "reported by crude "DR meter" tools that compare peak and RMS levels. Interesting... 

************************************

There are two types of processing during vinyl mastering that can increase the DR measurements and waveform spikiness, thus reducing the RMS and increasing the basic DR measurement by perhaps several dB:

The audio is subjected to low-pass or all-pass filtering, which can result in broad peaks becoming slanted ramps. The amount and stereo separation of deep bass content is reduced for vinyl, to keep the stylus from being thrown out of the groove. It is quite possible that these changes are entirely inaudible, despite their effect on the waveform shape and DR measurement.

The dynamic range of the waveform is also affected by the vinyl playback system; different systems provide different frequency responses. Factors include cartridge, tonearm, preamp, and even the connecting cables. A vinyl rip with weak bass may well have a higher reported DR value than a rip of the same vinyl on equipment with a stronger bass response.

^^^^^^
The last paragraph in this section is of particular interest and points again to equipment level and attention to detail  (setup). 

****************************************************

Some even believe that Vinyl will automatically yield a superior sound, despite the well known technical limitations and disadvantages compared to the CD.

The technical details behind this myth are as follows. The cutting heads used for creating the vinyl lacquer (or metal mother) are speaker-like electromechanical devices driven by an extremely powerful amplifier (several hundred watts). At extremely large/fast cutting head excursions, the cutting head coils may physically burn up, much like how a speaker's voice coils may be destroyed by an excessive current. Also, the diamond cutting head stylus may prematurely wear or break. This places important constraints on the maximum levels that can be recorded to a record.

^^^^
Points to the extra care needed with cutting vinyl. Another reference to the delicate cutting equipment and how if one is not careful, damage could result to it.  

Comments ... 

Well, obviously the dynamic range of any recording is affected by the playback system including all components and room acoustics. but we are not talking about all of that, we are only concerning ourselves here with the recording that is presented to the system, as it were. Even if the dynamic range measurement system is "crude" which I doubt it is  it will be crude for all recordings so it should even out.  What is the error in the DR measurement system, 1 dB? Who knows? It is what it is. If you can hear the compression it's bad. If you can't hear it or it doesn’t bother you too much then go for it!  But as for me I find I cant listen to overly compressed music so if it flunks the test for dynamic range I’m out.

Here is somebody comparing the Dynamic Range levels in a video.
Vinyl against CD and his impressions.
oh .....and he is the one that created the original master digital file. 

http://productionadvice.co.uk/tt-meter-not-for-vinyl/

I found it a fun and interesting video. Watching how the meter functions answered a lot of questions for me. Before I comment further will let those interested view it.

Geoffkait - Well, obviously the dynamic range of any recording is affected by the playback system including all components and room acoustics. but we are not talking about all of that.

?? the signal - digital or vinyl is plugged into a DR Meter. Room acoustics is not in play.

and fwiw with vinyl.

No two same cartridges - are the same. Differences exist. And who listens to vinyl with the same cartridge as someone else. Very rare. Then you move further up different tonearm >>>>> wiring >>>>>>>turntable >>>>> preamp/phonostage >>>>>>> DR meter.

What does this say about the consistency in the "vinyl" DR ratings themselves ?  Lots of variables - and lets not forget the most important one with vinyl. The actual SETUP.  

Hello, it was actually the dude from Hydrogen Audio that intimated that the dynamic range is system dependent, which is a TRUE statement but irrelevant to the topic at hand.  Now that I think about it and I hope your don't feel like I'm jumping down your throat too much so are the differences among cartridges.  That's kind of the same argument the dude from Hydrogen was attempting to make.  

Cheerios