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Tonearm recommendation

Hello all,
Recently procured a Feickert Blackbird w/ the Jelco 12 inch tonearm.
The table is really good, and its a keeper. The Jelco is also very good, but not as good as my Fidelity Research FR66s. So the Jelco will eventually hit Ebay, and the question remains do I keep the FR66s or sell that and buy something modern in the 5-6 K range. My only point of reference is my old JMW-10 on my Aries MK1, so I don't know how the FR66s would compare to a modern arm. So I'd like to rely on the collective knowledge and experience of this group for a recommendation.

Keep the FR66s, or go modern in the 5-6K range, say a Moerch DP8 or maybe an SME.

Any and all thoughts and opinions are of course much appreciated.

Cheers,      Crazy Bill
wrm0325
fleib
1,124 posts
 

Lewm, Dover, I assume this is the UNI-DIN alignment I read about (Fremer?). Nulls at 66.3 and 112.5mm. If you hunt down the article you'll see the curves for alignment error. It looks pretty good. I'm reluctant to call alignment error, distortion. Unless/until someone correlates alignment error with a master type source and a distortion analyzer, I think the use of the term distortion is misleading. Some people throw this word around who clearly don't know what they're talking about.

I don't have an FR arm and I haven't read the past threads.  It's a little hard to imagine how or why increasing mounting distance 1.5mm would make a significant difference. The only thing I could come up with is a miniscule reduction in offset angle. I believe perception of differences is sometimes fueled by anticipation and expectations, although I'm not saying that is the case here. It could be that Jupiter aligned with Mars and Dertonearm is the 7th son of a 7th son born on a blood moon (whatever that is).  Don't take offense here, I'm a sarcastic type.

It's interesting to note, the factory nulls minimize inner groove problems with that null being close to the run out groove. The outer null is close to Baerwald.  UNI-DIN moves the inner null out near Baerwald, and 112.5 puts the outer null in closer than Loefgren(B). I think this minimizes error in the center of the grooves where error is highest.

Dover, VE has a free protractor called Chpratz. It's just a calibrated straight line. With it, you could experiment with different alignments, although it's not easy to set up like a Dennesen.

Regards,

Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas
13,101 posts
 
Dear shubert: México.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.
wrm0325 OP
72 posts
 
Hello Stringreen,

the same EXACT sequence occurred for me back in 2000 when I had the 
JMW-10 with a Grado Statement.

Your observations mirrored mine exactly.

And a difference, as you noted, of only a single drop of oil in the well made all the difference in the world.

Cheers,                    Crazy Bill

Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas
13,101 posts
 
Dear fleib: """ your bit about pure musical information going through the wires is bizarre. Of course you can overdamp an arm. Look at the output on a scope. """

of course is bizarre but remember that I’m talking on an " ideal and perfect audio world "": that’s what all audiophiles want (  "" pure musical information going through the wires...""" )  and only can dream with. At least me.

Why? because that’s not posible with so many vibration/noise/resonances/distortions/anomalies sources that not only surround the LP/cartridge but where any single part of the whole analog rig has and intimate relationship in between others making more complex to identify each one source of those " overall anomalies " and the result when those single source " anomalies " are mixed with the other ones coming for the other analog rig sources and that’s why we need to " overdamp " each one of those sources of " overall anomalies " that always degrade the recorded signal because all those " anomalies does not exist in the recorded signal that comes in the LP groove modulations.

Now, I posted this so try to give you the answer to that WHY? and share your answer or answers with all of us:


"""" Why exist the still points, vibraplane platforms, after market tubes dampers and " better " tubes circuit board bases, items to damp speakers/CD players/amps/preamps, cable elevators, clamps and TT mats, room treatment, speaker designers that take care of internal cabinet damping along the choosed build materials, speaker designers that take care seriously that the speaker crossover be perfectly damped and even designs with an external crossover, we audiophuiles that are looking how to kill vibrations anywhere the audio system?

Why every one: designers, manufacturers, reviewers, customers are looking where is that best damping item? WHY? """""


Yes, we can damp a tonearm or any other audio item at different damping levels even " overdamp " looking at the output of a scope ( as you said it. ) and this is part of the main subject of what I’m talking about. In an ideal world what I need is that looking to that scope signal exist no " anomalies/deviations " of any kind to preserve that critical/sensitive/fragile " pure music information traveling in the internal tonearm wires ".

" Overdamp "?, to whom? where is the damage to the music signal coming in the wires that comes from what’s recorded in the LP grooves modulations?

I made those questions to you and any one but first that any one even think about I would like to ask to you and the other contributors in this thread this:

DO YOU WANT TO LISTEN WHAT THE PHONO CARTRIDGE PICK UP FROM THE LP MODULATIONS WITH OUT ANY SINGLE " ANOMALIES " OR YOU WANT TO LISTEN IT WITH ADDED FULL CONTAMINATION OF EVERY KIND OF SYSTEM GENERATED DISTORTIONS?

that’s my target and for I can be nearer tho that target I have to mantain at minimum all the audio system generated " anomalies " at each single system link and damping is only an important step to do it along other steps.

Due that that’s my main target I have not fear to " overdamp " because according with that target no one can do it.

Which your target?

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.


PS: btw, there is in this thread a gentleman that ( some years ago ) , if I remember, posted answering to an Agoner that " we can´t overdamp " a TT or platter TT " ( more or less. ).

I know he is reading this and I hope he can post about because is a person that I have high respect for his knowledge level and if he posted that I know he has several reasons about.
fleib
1,124 posts
 

Sorry Raul, You can't lump all types of vibrations into a pile and deal with them by damping. It doesn't work that way. Damping doe not kill vibrations, it mitigates the affects.  In this case fluid damping an arm pivot can reduce the amplitude of resonance by approx. 50% depending on compliance, mass etc. Damping does not stop the resonance, it redistributes it over a wider frequency range with a less severe peak.

Overdamp the pivot, and as the name implies it's too much, it impedes motion. That's why Stingreen and Crazy Bill experienced negative affects with overdamping. There are other ways to deal with vibration depending on type and situation.

The use of mass is a way to convert vibrations to heat. Consider Mosin's Saskia table. It has a 200 lb. plinth made of slate. Even though slate is good at transmitting vibrations the mass converts them to heat. Another way is to dissipate vibrations and convert to heat or direct them out of the table.  Some coupling should be rigid, not damped. Overdamp everything on a table and the sound turns to mush (opposite of live music).

Regards,

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