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Tonearm recommendation

Hello all,
Recently procured a Feickert Blackbird w/ the Jelco 12 inch tonearm.
The table is really good, and its a keeper. The Jelco is also very good, but not as good as my Fidelity Research FR66s. So the Jelco will eventually hit Ebay, and the question remains do I keep the FR66s or sell that and buy something modern in the 5-6 K range. My only point of reference is my old JMW-10 on my Aries MK1, so I don't know how the FR66s would compare to a modern arm. So I'd like to rely on the collective knowledge and experience of this group for a recommendation.

Keep the FR66s, or go modern in the 5-6K range, say a Moerch DP8 or maybe an SME.

Any and all thoughts and opinions are of course much appreciated.

Cheers,      Crazy Bill
wrm0325
fleib
1,124 posts
 

Raul,

**Unipivots works during playing in continuous desequilibrium, its bearing damping is not to really damp the whole tonearm but, mainly, trying to put at minimum that unstability during playing and that’s all.**

A unipivot maintains stability by the distribution of mass and the center of gravity in relation to the pivot. It's like a platter on the bearing. A well designed table will have the mass of the platter distributed so it does not have a tendency to wobble.  If the center of gravity is too low or high, it will be unstable.

Some unipivots use no fluid. How would they work if they relied on fluid?  A unipivot feels unstable with manual cueing because there's no weight on the stylus. The system isn't loaded. As soon as you let it go, the cart straightens.  If the bearing was in a constant state of disequilibrium (good one), you would not be able to listen to it. A fluid damped unipivot is damped, any way you cut it. There might be suggestions for the amount and viscosity of the fluid.

Neither the DP8 or 507 II are unipivots.  They both use high mass (inertia) in the horizontal plane to optimize tracking and bass response. The difference between bearing friction and high inertia is in the type of resistance to movement. Effective mass and inertia are the same.

The 507 is designed to have high inertia (mass) laterally. You call it friction, but it's part of the design.  Less than 50mg lateral sensitivity and less than 40mg vertically - also part of the design. The little vertical arm is so light, that pivot is damped to keep it from flying away.  With all the damping going on, I would think you would be enthusiastic.

You're innocent until proven guilty?  You keep saying the same thing over and over as if that makes you right.  As soon as the thread gets interesting you start up again.  You're the only one trying to prove something.  Lighten up, life's too short.

Regards,




mmakshak
589 posts
 
While I love how digital keeps improving, assuming it is perfect Is a non-starter for me.  I guess, when digital sound, near its beginning, reminded me of AM radio, but was called, "perfect sound forever", it has left me skeptical. 

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rauliruegas
13,101 posts
 
Dear ct0517: Yes I said that and I’m still with: the ET is an Icon in the audio history.

My first tangential arm was the Dennesen ( that unfortunatelly I sold it. ) followed by the Southern and then the ET and after that I listen several tangential arms like the Rockport, Walker and Kuzma.

Nothing is perfect, tangential arms makes verty especial kind of sound from mid bass and up that for some of us could make the difference.
I was with my ET till its ET 2 version and then sold and from all my experiences with this kind of arm design the one that I " keep " it is the ET but I like a little more the overall quality performance of a well designed and a well excuted design on pivot tonearms.

I’m with you in almost all about the ET but things are that my main audio/music priorities are a little different from yours, that’s all.
Seems to me that the fact that the pivoted arms are true grounded to earth ( to arm board and then TT, and then platform and then to floor and and ) instead in the air gives that bass range characteristics I posted that air bearing does not have.

Can I live with the ET tonearm? sure I can as any one else.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.
ct0517's avatar
ct0517
2,041 posts
 

It's even too cold to fish ( and that's cold ).

:^)
Crazy Bill - I thought of the Grumpy Old Men movie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TRUnJ5JlYw



wrm0325 - I'm going to look into the ET arms.


You can start here - at this link.

https://forum.audiogon.com/search/index?utf8=%E2%9C%93&query=ET2+yellow+sticky+


It's an AudioGon forum search on ET2 Yellow Sticky

I think I evolved into some sort of project manager on this thread ?
Now if I can just find a real project management job that lets me work from home........

You can read the manual too available as a download from Eminent Technology here.

http://www.eminent-tech.com/main.html

click on Support, then Manuals.  

But I think the ET 2 thread is more fun. I feel we learn better when it is fun.
Any questions please say hi on the ET 2 thread.  

My moniker Ct0517 - are my initials and month/day I joined on here.
I am in Southern Ontario, south of Lake Simcoe.

**********************

Hi Raul  
I would not be happy with the ET 1 myself. The ET 2.0 and 2.5 allow you to tune the I Beam compliance for different compliance cartridges.
No other tonearm I am aware of allows for this.
If I was using only MM's I would stick with the ET 2.0 hpm - high pressure manifold. It was introduced when MM's were most popular. That is the tonearm I use in Room B. But my main cartridges are MC. The 2.5 is designed with a thicker lower resonance spindle for MC's.  I had Bruce build me a special ET 2.5. 

Now you can use MC's on the 2.0 version and MM's on the 2.5 version;
and in fact a better setup 2.0 version with an MC, will outperform a weaker setup 2.5 version with an MC. Its all about setup. But for most potential, the general guide is MM's with the 2.0, MC's with the 2.5.

The Air Bearing affords isolation, and allows me to run a straight shot of unshielded wiring. The person that makes the loom - Take Five Audio, tells me NO pivot arm customers can use this loom for two reasons.

1) The erratic pivot arm, armtube behavior with the attached external wire. All pivot arms are like buying a new car with a low front right tire. The only way to fix it - lower pressure in the front left tire. Called antiskating.   

2) Hum issues with the pivot tonearm itself being being bolted to the plinth. Multiple grounds are not a good thing Raul.

Remember a long time ago we used to plug all our stuff into the back of the preamp ?  

Happy Listening.

@Crazy Bill - Happy fishing !
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rauliruegas
13,101 posts
 
Dear chris: """   Multiple grounds are not a good thing Raul.  """

I don't explained well whar I really want mean:

when I said " grounded " I'm refering a mechanical grounded not electrical. Air bearing tonearm are " floating " and pivot ones are mechanical grounded  and maybe this solid " grounded " bering/surface or whatever is what gives that overall " solidity " to that bass range against a vaccum bearing and I said: " seems to me ", only an opinion.

I use MM and MC cartridges and with my ET 2 90% of the time was with MC ones. Your information about is appreciated.

"""  The erratic pivot arm, armtube behavior with the attached external wire .."""

I respect that Take Five people but I kow they have not real experiences with an external tonearm wire or at least not the right ones.

I try it this for the first time several years ago with my SAEC pivoted tonearms ( 506/8000 ) through the silver Van den Hul wires that gone directly from the cartridge output pins connectors to the phono stage inputs.
After that I tryed with other of my pivoted tonearms and with diferent silver wires including the almost non-existen silver Audio Note that are almost " mechanical resistence cero ".
So, that TF people have to try it again before give that kind of advise

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.
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