Jazz for aficionados

Hi all - just caught up on the last few days of this thread.  O-10, I would like  to attempt to help explain one thing you are puzzled by -  yes, one MUST practice improvising.   As Frogman said, all of these great improvisers practice all the time.  One must practice developing one's musical ideas so that they are coherent and understandable for the listener.  You can't just go up there and play whatever the hell you want, as you seem to think - that is NOT what any of them are doing.  They still have to fit in with everything else going on - the harmony, the rhythm, etc.  Think about this - if one did not have to practice improvisation, then any classical musician or rock musician or folk musician or whatever kind of musician could improvise just as well as any jazz musician could.   The reason the jazz musician is so much better at improvisation is because he has practiced it, very very hard for a very long period of time.  Classical musicians in fact used to do this, especially in the Classical era - performers would improvise during their concertos all the time, in a section called the cadenza.  Nowadays, just about everyone memorizes a cadenza and plays the same one all the time, though there are a few who do still improvise one on the spot.  One example that I have worked with a couple of times is the famous current pianist, Stephen Hough.  He always improvises his cadenzas on the spot, and when he did a children's concert with us one time, he asked the kids for melodies that they wanted worked into the cadenza, and then obliged them.  In doing this, he is going through the exact same mental processes as a jazz musician improvising is.  The only difference is the idiom, not the process.  

***** First Leon Thomas, and now Dave pike; do those people's estates get more money, or just the record companies see more profit?*****

One of the strange, and good things, about recorded Jazz music is that a lot, if not most, of the greatest Jazz ever recorded, can be had for less than $10 per CD, while the newer 'Jazz' sometime cost $20 or more.  Go figure.

KOB $6.99 on Amazon.

Cheers

Learsfool, your whole post was "wack". I had no idea there was so much difference between a jazz musician, and a classical musician. The only thing you can practice is a written piece of music, or you can practice familiarity with your musical instrument.

This is what it is about; to have a musical idea in your head, and to make your instrument audibly produce that sound exactly as you hear it in your head. That means your brain extends through your hands into the musical instrument and the precise sound you want to hear comes out.

The more I talk about this the clearer it becomes. Simply because others don't believe what I'm saying, only means they can't do it. How specific can I be in regard to the time he practiced, 00 during one summer when he lived in my apartment. Before that time, he had a number of jazz albums that he led, and many more where he was a side man with some of the musicians we have talked about ad infinitum. I have all of those albums and I listen to them frequently. None of those albums have the same music he was performing three nights a week to packed houses; he was in no way new to St. Louis fans and musicians.

I was mesmerized at each performance, and since I drove him to each performance (in the deuce) I never missed a one. Jazz musicians in St. Louis have performed as sidemen with practically all the famous jazz musicians we have discussed. A local musician I've known for a long time, showed me his photographic portfolio where he performed with the musicians we have discussed when they came to St. Louis, and needed his particular instrument. My friend had no trouble in getting accomplished jazz musicians on whatever other instruments he chose.

Jazz is really the best music to represent America because: It is partly planned and partly spontaneous; that is, as the musicians perform a pre-determined tune, they have the opportunity to create their own interpretations within that tune in response to the other musicians' performances and whatever else may occur "in the moment" -- this is called improvisation and is the defining element of jazz. Improvisation is the key element of jazz. There is no better example of democracy than a jazz ensemble: individual freedom but with responsibility to the group. In other words, individual musicians have the freedom to express themselves on their instrument as long as they maintain their responsibility to the other musicians by adhering to the overall framework and structure of the tune. He was the leader and they discussed for about an hour before they went on stage what was to take place. I looked and listened, but I might as well been looking and listening to Martians, musician talk is Greek to me.

These musicians did not play any standard tunes; that's why the house was packed, his fans did not come to hear "Stardust", they came to hear him "wail", jam, rock the house; they came to hear him, and he was like a wild man on his instrument.


Enjoy the music.

Frogman, I know you and Rok, are sick and tired of this, so am I, but it will go on until it ends.

When you see pictures of Miles talking to Coltrane, Cannonball, or Gil Evans, there is always written music in front of them. When these guys talked about what they were going to do before the event, there was no written music. I never recall seeing any "written music" at any time; now you can make whatever you like out of that.


Enjoy the music.

Rok, Frogman, Alex; David Pike is the subject; he has a lot of music that I've never heard before, and according to my sensibilities, it's all good music. Why don't we visit "you tube", and get back together with our favorites by him, or discuss why you don't like David Pike if it turns out that way; see you  in a bit.