Primaluna Dialogue Premium or Premium HP?


I am hoping for some feedback from anyone who has experience with the PL Premium or HP.  I have a Dialogue One now, that I really love!  I have B&W 803N speakers, which are notorious for being hard to drive.  However, this Dialogue drives them wonderfully.  Now, the bug has got me, and I'm thinking to upgrade, to get clearer, cleaner (still tubes) sound, and a bit more power for bass control and power.

That said, I'm considering either the Dialogue Premium or the Dialogue Premium HP integrated amp.  I am able to get a good deal on the HP, making the cost difference unimportant.  Any thoughts on the difference in the two?  Only once, I read that the HP has more power but less finesse.  Anyone have experience with both who could comment on this?  Or other considerations?  Which would you choose if cost weren't the object?  Of course, saying that... going to separates would be cost prohibitive.  I know I'd see even more improvement with separates, but don't want to spend that cash now.

And, there isn't an option for me to audition them next to each other.  I'm going on faith and my current PL experience... and hopefully the collective knowledge of this forum.

Thanks!
128x128soundermn
I have been listening to my PL HP  for over a year. I upgraded from the PL Prologue  2.

Clearly an upgrade in every sense from the Prologue.
IMO however, the improvements while noticeable and worth the $ investment,are such that it makes you aware the PL line regardless of model, is a solid value.
With that said, the Dialogue series is nicer, so don't expect earth shattering gains across the board.
You may hear a little better control(tighter bass, clearer  mods/ highs )of a busy passage in favorite tune. Definetly more headroom as you push the volume control up.
The headphone jack is nice , even though I don't use cans.

Your amp is firmly in the territory of "good sound" and ANYTHING from here becomes terribly subjective. I do agree with Art Dudley's(Stereophile) review stating the HP performs like a VERY GOOD separate line stage/ amp. The HP will present your source in its best light. Another plus is any future source/ speaker upgrade won't be underserved by the HP

FWIW, I use a VPI Classic/Audio Technica ART9, Fosgate V.2 tubed phono, Opera Seconda floorstanders, REL B3. All gear plugged into a PS Audio Power Plant and plumbed with Nordost V2 Frey/ Heimdall,from PP to speakers.Table,speakers,sub -Mapleshade planked and spiked. Fabulous sound and not ridiculously priced. I've noticed the MSRP creep up considerably in a sort period of time, though.
My HP II's powered by some early 50's RCA coke bottle 6l6G's- very realistic,believable
presentation.

Well, I did end up getting the HP.  Sorry, I don't recall where I read that it may have a little less finesse than the Dialogue Premium, and don't have a way to compare.

I will say that compared to the Dialogue One, it is a step up for sure.  It has much more clarity, and better sound stage.  It has the power handling I was hoping for and seems to have a smoother overall sound.  I like it, and will definitely be keeping it.  I opted to put KT120s in it after only a short time with the standard EL34s, and I think this was a good move for the kind of music I listen to... mostly classic rock.

But, the real question is whether it's the major step forward you'd hope, based on its cost.  I would say it is a step forward, but probably not the major leap you'd expect.  If I was to go back, I'd opt for the Dialogue Premium instead and spend the extra $1k on music.  I don't think the extra power makes a substantial difference.  Even the Dialogue One handled my B&W speakers quite well.  

At some point in a year or two, I'll probably put the KT150s in.  But, I'm very happy with it at this point and don't feel a real need to upgrade to the higher power tubes.  Perhaps the KT150s would have a touch more power behind them, and may sound a little sweeter than the 120s.  It would be a fun experiment, but spendy.

If you are facing this decision too, and the cost is a stretch, I think you'd be just as happy with the Dialogue Premium as with the HP.  Frankly, even the Dialogue One or Two are awesome as well, and I think anyone would be happy with any of the PL integrated amps.  If you are in Minneapolis, bring a beverage of your choice, and I'd be happy to give you a demo!
Also, FWIW, I have the HP powering B&W 803Ns, a Pro-Ject RM5.1, a Jolida JD9 (heavily modded) phono stage, and for the occasional CDs, an Azur 650C. I think it’s all a good match for each other.

I will also mention that I changed the input tubes to RCA Clear Top 12AU7 and found that it made the sound more open and improved the sound stage quite a bit. The stock tubes are very good, but I do prefer the RCAs for the overall tonal balance... just a little more alive.  They are a little shy on bass compared to the stock input tubes, but overall a better sound. I’ve just ordered a set of Cite 12AU7s for the input stage to see how they work out. I’ll report back when they arrive and break in for a while.
But, the real question is whether it's the major step forward you'd hope, based on its cost.  I would say it is a step forward, but probably not the major leap you'd expect.  If I was to go back, I'd opt for the Dialogue Premium instead and spend the extra $1k on music.  I don't think the extra power makes a substantial difference.  Even the Dialogue One handled my B&W speakers quite well.

I agree with the above. I felt the same way, and decided to keep the DiaLogue One, since I felt that the DiaLogue Premium would have been a move sideways at best. They are all fantastic integrated amps. However, I did feel that the HP was considerably less open than the One. But this may have been a combination of the EL-34's compared to my KT-88's, as well as the low hours on all the tubes. 

As an aside, you may tire quickly of the KT-120's. I know I have been down that road. Great at first, shrill and with a hint of glare after a while. I always end up getting back to the Gold Lion KT-88's, for some reason, and love it. 

For the record, my system is not so dissimilar from yours (and I also listen mostly to rock and classical):

- Prima Luna DiaLogue One
- Sonus faber Elipsa SE
- Oppo 105 + hard drive
- Pro-Ject RM 5.1
- Nordost Brahma power cord on the amp, straight to the wall
- PS Audio Duet on the digital front
- Nordost Heimdall 1 on interconnects and Heimdall 2 speakers
Sounderman, congratulations on your acquisition.

As your hearing detects, the sonic upgrade is there, but not in a way which your jaw drops. 
I  found the more you listen, the impression of "upgrade" increases!
RCA black plates along with the same Mazda Cifte's are in my HP. 

You may have to squint your eyes to hear the differences swapping preamp tubes, but a subtle "sparkle" is present with the Cifte. I have also compared the RCA's in the preamp slots.Of course, YMMV.
I personally hear the 6L6G as a nice compromise of the 88 vs 34 sound. The 88 family definitely has more bass, yet the 34's mids just seem more realistic. My REL makes up for any low end missing.