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Headphone question

I generally do not use headphones for listening, as I prefer my loudspeakers.  However, I do a lot of digitizing of my LPs (a long-term ongoing project).  For the last few years, I have been using Grado SR-60s to monitor the recordings I make on a Marantz pro-sumer CD recorder.  While these are very pleasant sounding headphones, they are a tad euphonic, warming up the mid-bass, and rolling off the treble.  This makes them great when listening for pleasure, but using them as monitors for recording tends to result in recordings that are too hot on top and too rolled off in the bass.  So I am thinking of looking for a new set of cans, one that would be more of a professional-style sonic balance, very revealing, and very flat in frequency response.  Sonic beauty is not the goal here; I want to hear everything being burned onto my CD-Rs, warts and all.  The headphone equivalent of studio-monitor loudspeakers is what I need.

I prefer over (around) the ear designs.  I do not need isolation, nor is bleed into the room an issue for me.

My ears tend to get sweaty with closed-back designs, so unless there is a closed-back design that avoids sweaty-ears, I would prefer open-back designs. 

Also, since I have a connection to a certain retailer, I can get big discounts on the brands this retailer carries, so I want to restrict my choices to one of these brands.  Also, since my budget for new cans is limited, I need to restrict my choices to headphones that have a street price of about $200 or less (less being better).

Here is a list of the brands from which I can choose, with most models from these manufacturers being available to me:

AKG
Sony
Sennheiser
Audio Technica
Shure
KRK
Fostex
Roland
Ultrasone
Grado
V-Moda
Direct Sound

Any adice would be very much appreciated!  Thanks.

bondmanp
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,841 posts
 
The high end Grados and the high end Sennheisers are excellent.

I don't have the same experience as you with the SR-60s. We use them in the studio a lot and they seem to be quite accurate. What differences are there between your headphone circuits and your loudspeaker circuits (for example, what is the difference between amplifiers)?
bondmanp OP
1,816 posts
 

Thanks, atmasphere.  The two signal paths are completely different.  The recording chain is:  Turntable (Thorens TD-166 MkII, with either Ortofon OM-30 or Denon TD-160 cartridges) > McIntosh C220 preamp w/MM phono section > Kenwood graphic/parametric EQ > Marantz CDR-630 CD recorder, which does the A/D conversion.  The Grados are connected to the headphone jack on the Marantz.


The listening chain, ultimately, is FLAC files on a Vortexbox Appliance > Wifi router (via ethernet) > Squeezebox Touch > Superberry DAC (highly modified Beresford DAC) > McIntosh C220 preamp > Odyssey Audio HT3 amplifier > Ohm Walsh 2000 speakers, each with its own Vandersteen 2Wq subwoofers with HP-M5 battery-biased crossovers.


However, based on listening to my digitized LPs on my own system and other systems known to be pretty neutral, my recordings definitely sound brighter and more bass-shy than they did when I was doing the recording.  Hence the post.  Unfortunately, the high-end Grados and Sennheisers are beyond my budget.

mapman's avatar
mapman
22,304 posts
 
Bondman,

Are you applying equalization or any other processing during the recording?

There are many reasons why monitored sound might not sound or be an accurate representation of what is recorded, so I would hesitate to draw conclusions on that unless sure. For example I have an inexpensive phono A/D converter I bought that does a good job in teh A/D part but has lousy circuitry for monitoring via phones. I also have a Denon disc recorder that jsut always does a good job as long as peak levels are under control (meters on teh recorder show that). I have never even atempted to use the headphone jack on teh recorder though. I just know that once I set things up right I am getting a recording that is hard to distinguish from the original.

One of the major headphone sites (don’t recall which) publishes extensive lab measurements on most all popular headphones that I found most useful when choosing. That can at least help take that variable out of the equation. Most good quality phones designed for studio monitoring should do a good job, though there are still differences to help suit different needs.

Also remember that truly flat sound may sound rolled off on the high end to most older listeners over 50. Also that optimal human hearing is not flat so any sound source that is in fact flat may not sound that way.

My assessment of Sennheiser house sound from over the years is that the top end is fairly accurate and  may sound somewhat rolled off accordingly whereas alternate house sounds may provide a boost in the high end and often sound flatter even though they are not.  Audio Technica house sound tends to lean more that way for example.



bondmanp OP
1,816 posts
 
Thanks, mapman.  Yes, I apply EQ via the Kenwood unit.  Obviously, I am not a purist.  Also, the cartriges I have, especially the Ortofon, are on the bright side of neutral, IMO.  So my conclusions about the Grado SR-60s is based on comparing the end result - the CD-R, verses what I was hearing through the Grados while monitoring the recording.  So, whether it is the headphone section of the CD recorder, the headphones, or my ears, the end results are consistently brighter-sounding than what I hear while recording.  I end up trying to compensate for that with the equalizer, but it is a very hit-or-miss process.  I'd much rather have a set of cans that would give me a more accurate representation of the recording, even if I am actually compensating for frequency imbalances in the CD recorder's headphone section.  Have I made this clearer, or have I made it more confusing?
mapman's avatar
mapman
22,304 posts
 
Why not just record with no EQ and have a recording that is same as original? If source is Ortofon cart recording should be no brighter or different than otherwise, right?

Or if the cart is too bright to start, maybe something can be done there.

Once you have that you could even attempt to master your own alternate digital versions from there with the right software if you choose rather than banking on it during recording and possibly not getting it the way you want.

Just brainstorming....

On a side note, tonality of Sennheiser headphones in general remind me the most of OHM Walsh tonality, which by all accounts is typically pretty darn flat.  I always seem to levitate back to both no matter what over time.
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