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Help with speaker placement in my real life room

Hello all, I just set up a pair of Wilson Sophia 2's in my living room.  They are on wheels at the moment so I can tweak the position.  Can you give me a bit of advice on placement with the limitations of my room? I tried the Wilson Audio Setup Procedure, but as I was on my own, it was very challenging.  I plan to do this again when I have a helper.  I then went the route of getting the speakers as far as I could from the back wall, and varied distance between speakers and toe-in degrees.

What I settled on for now is sounding very good, but perhaps still not perfect, hard to say. The thing is, the triangle is far from equilateral, as you can see from my drawing. I tried to get it close to equilateral, but that would require the right speaker being very close to the side wall. When I did this, it sounded far worse. Do you think this is ok, or by the book, to have a listening distance to speaker distance ratio like the drawing is indicating? I want to know of there is some rule that I am missing that may be holding me back.

The right speaker’s tweeter is 51” from the back wall, and 37” from the side wall

Here is a link to my updated schematic drawing of my room and speaker placement.
https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/5421#&gid=1&pid=6

Thanks!
Mark
marktomaras
marktomaras OP
544 posts
 
 I checked out the Cardas formulas, but it places my speakers beyond the boundaries of what is possible in a non-dedicated room, so I more or less wrote off the Cardas method.  As it is, the tweeters are 51" out from the back wall, and the Cardas method has them significantly further into the room I think. :-(
theres only so much I can get away with!
newbee
4,767 posts
 
It looks like it aught to work as is, but I would be concerned some with 1st reflections off the right side wall windows.

You might try to toe in your speakers until the axis crosses in a foot or so in front of your head. Speakers can be hot on axis, that is why I recommend that they be toed in beyond your head - it can replicate the firing straight ahead position with out some of the downsides of that. It would do a couple of things in addition to reducing side wall reflections. It would help widen the sweet spot for listening and for better or worse it will change the reflection pattern off the ceiling. Take your time , a lot of it, before you reach conclusions about what is best for you in your room. Inches matter in both locating speaker and listening positions. 

FWIW, I had the same results with Cardas but it  was a good starting point.
marktomaras OP
544 posts
 
Newbee, hello again!  Different month, different thread...

I just added a photo of the right wall windows on my virtual system page.  As you can see, the bank of windows has a large set of plantation shutters covering it.  As these have an uneven shape, could this be acting as a diffusion panel, and thus not creating a large issue?  How does that affect your recommendation of degree of toe in?

thanks!
onhwy61's avatar
onhwy61
5,186 posts
 
Are you trying to minimize bass room nodes, side/back wall reflections, imaging width or some combination?  Once you've dealt with room modes you should then focus on soundstage issues.  Having your loudspeakers different distances from the side wall actually can help with room modes.  The equilateral triangle should be considered a starting point and you should move your listening position backward until you balance out detail vs. soundstage/imaging.  Then play around with toe-in.  You may have to repeat the process several times before it's optimized.  And I also wouldn't discount the possibility that your current positioning really is the best set of compromises.  Good luck!
meerzistar
232 posts
 
Even though I like the blinds some thick material window treatments could sound better. I would also be tempted to relocate the flexi rack (nice one BTW) and have the power amps on the floor sitting on platforms. It may not be that much of a hindrance seeing that your Wilson’s are a noticeable distance forth of it and the wall. However I am suspect. While looking I think I would be most concerned about the window wall. Especially since the opposing side is wide open.

I am thinking bass might be somewhat looser having the speakers on wheels that may not be the best way to sample location placement. 
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