Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil


I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
Quick question.  Are these audiophile capacitors like the Mundorf directional? 

Yes indeed based on how the cap is built. There is an inside and outside foil and many brands mark the caps so you are aware. From the Aiken amplifier site;

The proper way to connect the outside foil is to the low impedance side of the circuit, which, in the case of coupling caps, will normally be the plate of the previous stage. If it is a bypass cap to ground, connect the outside foil to the grounded side. If it is a bypass cap from a signal to B+, connect the outside foil to B+. The outside foil will act as a shield against electric field coupling into the capacitor, so you want it to have the lowest impedance return path to ground.
For AC signals, the power supply rail is effectively at ground potential, just as the ground rail is. This is why it makes a good point to use as a shield ground. This concept is sometimes difficult to understand, but if you think about how a capacitor works, it will become clear. A capacitor has a capacitive reactance that calculated as follows:

Xc = 1/(2*Pi*f*C)
where: Xc is the capacitive reactance
          f = the frequency of the signal being passed through the capacitor
          C = the capacitance of the capacitor.

As you can see from the above equation, the frequency term is in the denominator, so as the frequency increases, the capacitive reactance decreases. Since reactance is effectively a measure of the "AC resistance" of the capacitor, the capacitor will exhibit a very low resistance at higher frequencies, while looking like an open circuit for DC and frequencies low enough to make the capacitive reactance significant. This means that the large electrolytic bypass capacitors in the power supply are effectively "short circuits" to AC signals above a certain very low frequency. For all practical shielding purposes, connecting the outer foil to the power supply rail is just as good as connecting it to ground. As a side note, electrolytic capacitors have an internal resistance that tends to rise with frequency, which can make the capacitor less than ideal as a bypass at higher frequencies. For this reason, it is sometimes a good idea to bypass electrolytic capacitors with a smaller value foil or other type capacitor.
I have seen where a well-known guitar amplifier "guru" said to connect the banded end to the grid of the next stage because it is at ground potential. This is completely wrong, because the grid circuit is a very high impedance point in the circuit. The grid of the tube itself is very high impedance, and it is usually shunted by a high resistance of 220K to 1Meg, and also usually has a large series resistance as an interstage attenuator as well. Because of this, it would make a very poor choice for electrostatic shielding. The plate, on the other hand, has an impedance equal to the internal plate resistance of the tube in parallel with the plate resistor (assuming the cathode is bypassed), which for a typical 12AX7 is around 38K total. If the cathode resistor is unbypassed, the output impedance is a bit higher, around 68K or so, depending on the value of the cathode resistor, but still well below the input impedance of the next stage. Tubes with lower internal plate resistances, such as the 12AT7, will have even lower output impedances.
I am trying to catch up on Jeff's Place blog. I really enjoy his excellent blog! 

I am glad to hear he compares the mods he does with an  original. 

When I started I kept the best sounding amp I had original, always having a reference for a stock amp for mods to not come up with the false idea that everything I did was an improvement.

As Jeff was saying sometimes it's frustratingly not. 

My original stock Fisher is now no longer stock. It was the amp that caught fire and melted an output transformer. My modded vintage amp in main system has long ago passed the stock vintage amp.

The Fisher was cathode biased. My tech guy who builds tube amps and repairs amps from all over Canada and the U.S.. A lot of expensive gear. Just love visiting him to see what is in for repair!

He changed the cathode biased amp to fixed bias. He did not like the circuit. He thought unstable. No argument here! (Chew up tubes catch fire the only thing it did well was sound great and very quiet)

A repair mans point of view will be different than ours. 

I can not comment fully the change in sound but for sure sounds different. Technically the amp already running much cooler and seems much more stable!

So far the amp sounds stable and cooler,  like it is running. The 4 Solen caps I suspect not helping either. Artificial sound. (Grainy that I am not used too)

 It is my new project amp to see if I can push it passed my best modded amp.

My gut feeling is the phono stage is going to be much quieter. The one area I have not been super thrilled with.  Phono stage was too noisy on other vintage amp. (Jupiter caps helped immensely there)

I have no idea of the differences in fixed vs. Cathode biased for sound?

I do have to say I am wayyyy more confident that the amp is stable!

My modding ability is extremely limited to part for part replacement, and a set of ears.

Now back to following Jeff's blog and his excellent crew!







On Jeff's Place and the WE16ga wire I still can not say which I like better the WE or Duelund 2.0 Silver? (It has been months!)

Each sounds different. 

Duelund richer warmer and WE livelier in the midrange possilbly a more "real" sound midrange.

So far I would say Duelund overall. (Richer more complex)

In in my bedroom system I really liked WE. Smaller system and having a great midrange in a small system is critical. Have not even tried Duelund there.

Am I going to spend the vastly larger amount of money on Duelund Silver in the bedroom? No.

I will rewire speakers internally to WE in the bedroom system as well.

WE is a great low cost tip from Jeff's place!


The fact that the W.E. wire is competitive with the Duelund silver wire is highly impressive and commendable. If you find the W.E. more "-real" sounding then that is the one I would select ."Real" and "natural " -are my objectives when choosing any audio product. 
Charles