Tonearm mount on the plinth or on Pillar ?


Folks,
I am looking to buy a custom built turntable from Torqueo Audio (http://www.torqueo-audio.it/). They have two models, one with a wide base plinth where the tonearm would be mounted on the plinth (as usual) and the second is a compact plinth where they provide a seperate tonearm pillar to mount the tonearm. According to them the separate tonearm pillar version sounds more transparent and quieter because of the isolation of the tonearm from the TT. My concern is whether seperating the tonearm from the plinth would result in a lesser coherence in sound ? Isnt sharing the same platform results in a more well-timed, coherent presentation ? Any opinions ?
pani

Peter Breuninger states that he "would put this combo up against anything currently available" (scroll to 6 mins 50 secs on the readout).

Looks good enough to be Italian too. :)

It contravenes a lot of currently "fashionable" logic e.g. not putting the drive pulley right next to the platter which would have maximised belt contact around the circumference.

Shame he only plays it for a minute. ;^)

Although I’m not a believer, I’ve got to be honest, despite the brief exposure it did sound good. :)

(They do also make models with the linked chassis BTW....)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gdo2Yf3BArQ

First we're told, **All we have to do is place the turntable in a room with speakers playing loudly and then measure the output of the cartridge.**

Then, **As to sound pressure- we get about 90-95db of noise going on when mastering. The vacuum system is enclosed in its own chamber, but still makes noise when in operation.**

All of the above?

Yes.
So. Are you referring here to playing the cut disc back on the nearby technics sl1200 in your work environment ? or did you actually mount the tonearm that was on the pillar directly to the lathe plinth?
It seems most expedient to answer this question- the answers to both parts is 'yes'. The pillar got abandoned- currently we are designing a machined bit that matches the shape of the lathe's plinth so we can bolt the arm mount directly to the lathe. In this fashion it will be impossible for the base of the arm to have movement different from that of the platter bearings.

I don't see how attaching the tonearm to the plinth can affect the 'noise'?
Surely the 'noise' is a function of the isolation, the tonearm pod mass, fixity, density and material selection as well as the tonearm rigidity.
I've explained it twice in this thread already. What part of my prior explanations are unclear? The 'noise' is actually introduced when the arm and platter bearings are able to move in different planes and rates. This is what happens when a separate arm pillar is employed.
your target in that tests and your " intuitive " premises are way diferent to our audiophile main targets and premises. So, your conclusion is not conclusive about what we want to test UNDER DAY BY DAY LISTENING ANALOG EXPERIENCES and that's why for you is so " easy to measure ". Your methodology can't fulfill our audiophile targets and premises and can't help us because the your " vision " of the whole subject is overall limited.
Actually this is not true. First you have to consider that we have audiophile intent- which you have to have if you want to do a decent job mastering an LP! Second, I think you are confusing the cutterhead with the lathe itself. The lathe is a first-class turntable that outclasses most turntables ever built, and obeys all the same physical laws. This is why adding a tone arm for playback faces the same issues as any other turntable.
In my case I want to know where is the SPL ( if exist. ) umbral where the theory start to reflect the " damage " creating ADDITIONAL colorations/distortions because the non-integrated TT tonearm approach.
As previously mentioned, I have explained this twice already in this thread. I suggest you re-read my initial posts and then ask me questions that might clarify some of the points made.
Well, Ralph, your explanations are perfectly intuitive to me. 

When I replaced my TT plinth, a rigid coupling of the platter bearing and the tonearm seemed intuitively obvious - I used a sandwich of heavy, precision aluminum plate, with the bearing surfaces machined into a high precision match. Improvement was not subtle.

Your calm is admirable.

 

I've explained it twice in this thread already. What part of my prior explanations are unclear? The 'noise' is actually introduced when the arm and platter bearings are able to move in different planes and rates. This is what happens when a separate arm pillar is employed.
 

But what you haven't addressed at all, is a description and photo of the separate arm pillar you employed.
You apparently believe that all separate arm pillars are the same regardless of size, weight, construction, density and supports.
The only reason an arm pillar can 
move in different planes and rates
is if it is inadequate.
And failing your willingness to describe the arm pillar you employed in your tests.....It's apparent it was 'inadequate' for the purpose.
Dear @pani: Now that you have several opinions on your main subject thread: which was your choice?
Dear Raul, the fact that this question occured to me even though I am a layman when it comes to technicalities of analog playback is an indication that I value that ultimate coherence of sound over the last word in transparency. Some of the most coherent and musically correct sounding decks I have heard, all have tonearms mounted on the plinth even though they have all the engineering prowess to build a seperate tonearm pillar. The simplicity of an integrated design brings about a simplicity in reproducing the music too IMO. I only wanted to confirm it by this thread. I am happy that there are many more who think like me including an audio designer like Atmasphere. If I was allowed to try the seperate tonearm pillar + plinth I would have happily taken the trial and come to a conclusion but when I am buying blind I will go by the proven practice of getting a single wide plinth with tonearm mounted on it.

Thanks everyone for this lively discussion. Please continue if you would like to.