Hype, Hyperbole and high price!


Okay, I understand that this site has to make money by having advertisers, but cheese and crackers, the claims that are made are just laughable if not down right criminal!  Before I attended an engineering university I too was duped into buying expensive wires and such.  Now, armed with an engineering and physics background, I can see through the BS claims made.  I try and not let it get in the way of my enjoyment of good quality stereo equipment, but when a salesman tries to sell me something based on testimonials, hype and hyperbole, I tell him politely my background and then ask him a series of questions which leaves him dumbfounded. 

Such crap as directional wires - (I used to work for both Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman) and trust me, if we had to test the miles of wires for directionality in every piece of equipment built...well you get the gist.

I have friends that are audio snobs and although they argue with me (Basically buyer's remorse) they know that what I say is true and end the conversation.  Oh well, I suppose I will continue to get a headache when I read said claims.

Sigh!
128x128kenny928
@jmcgrogan2 I think the post has less to do with debunking and whining and more to do with @kenny928 showcasing how highly educated and smart he is.
asp307 - When it comes to money, yes, has nothing to do with me proving how smart I am.  I am just trying to generate a discussion on what is transpiring in the industry.  The smart consumer is an educated consumer.  Would you buy a car on pure hype?  Much like the vitamin industry claims can be made without any substance.  Just look at Machina Dynamica's Brilliant Pebbles!  Type that into oogle's search engine and tell me that that will do what it claims!  I have a friend with a 30K system and he actually bought these!  Really?
kenny928,

Go to one of the Nordost cable demonstrations. If you can't hear the difference, then go to Home Depot and buy some wire if you need it, otherwise, have a great day, relax, listen to some music and enjoy yourself.
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Like the OP I too have been an audiophile since approximately 1979.  And I too spent my career at what during its latter stages became a subsidiary of Northrop Grumman, performing and managing design of analog and digital circuits.  And I too am frequently and greatly turned off by claims and explanations in audio-related marketing literature, as well as in forums, that I know to either be complete BS, or that I know to have little or no likelihood of being great enough in degree to be audibly significant. 

In the recent past there was a very lengthy thread here entitled "Why do people feel the need to buy expensive cable."  I posted the following in that thread, which I think is sufficiently relevant to be worth repeating here in its entirety. 

To put it all succinctly, my opinion is that as with most things in life the truth lies somewhere in the middle ground between extremist points of view.

Almarg 3-15-2016 3:30pm EDT
1)Wires sound different, to a greater or lesser degree depending not only on the wire but on the technical characteristics of what they are connecting, their lengths, the AC voltage and noise characteristics at the particular location in the case of power cords (at least), the system, the room, the recording, and the listener.

2)For many reasons, including synergy with the aforementioned variables, the correlation between cable price and cable performance is significantly less than 1.0 (i.e., significantly less than perfect).

3)Based in part on a substantial body of anecdotal evidence that has accumulated over the years, the correlation between cable price and cable performance is significantly greater than 0.0 (i.e., significantly greater than none).

4)It seems evident that some cables are overpriced, one reason among several being that their prices are determined in part based on what the market will bear. And it seems evident that SOME segment of the market assumes a higher degree of correlation between cable price and cable performance than is actually the case, and that segment of the market will therefore pay higher prices to achieve results that may (with sufficient experimentation) be achievable at lower prices in their particular cases.

5)Additional reasons that cables may in many cases be overpriced relative to the benefit they are likely to provide (I’m quoting from myself in the following thread from a couple of years ago; and pardon the redundancy with some of the points mentioned above):

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/small-cable-companies-making-preposterous-claims

(a)As seems to be generally agreed by most audiophiles, cable performance is highly system dependent.

(b)From a technical standpoint, it can be expected that cable performance will vary significantly depending on the technical characteristics of the components that are being connected, such as impedances. Even to the point of a comparison between two cables yielding exactly opposite results depending on what they are connecting. In past threads, such as this one, I have cited examples of situations in which exactly that can be expected to occur. [See especially both of the paragraphs in my post in that thread dated 12-15-2012 which begin with "one interesting example"].

(c)It seems to be generally agreed by most audiophiles that cable performance cannot be either fully explained or fully predicted based on generally recognized science. It follows from that, however, that the cable designers have no way to accurately predict the point of demarcation between optimization of a given cable parameter or design characteristic and what may be overkill of that parameter or design characteristic, which will accomplish nothing in most or all applications. Therefore it can be expected that what is likely to be a significant driver of the cost of many very expensive cables is overkill of some or all of their design parameters and characteristics, which will accomplish nothing in most or all applications.

6)It can be expected that if SOME audiophiles whose cable experience has focused disproportionately on the higher part of the price spectrum were to give equal opportunity to a variety of cables at lower price points, and experiment with such cables as extensively as they do with higher priced cables, there is a significant chance that they may be able to achieve performance comparable to what they have achieved at those higher price points at significantly lower price points. A substantial body of anecdotal evidence that has been reported here and elsewhere supports that conclusion, for example the threads about vintage Western Electric wires.

7)It can be expected that if SOME audiophiles whose cable experience has focused disproportionately or entirely on the lower part of the price spectrum were to focus on the higher part of the price spectrum they might in some cases, depending in part on their equipment, be surprised at how good the results are. A substantial body of anecdotal evidence that has been reported here and elsewhere supports that conclusion

8)Some audiophiles care more than others about achieving the last 5 or 10 or 20% of the performance their components are capable of. Some are satisfied with 80% and just want to listen to music. Both approaches are equally valid.

9)Assertions that wire is just wire are erroneous, and that belief should not be promulgated.

10)Assertions that more expensive necessarily = better are also erroneous, and that belief should not be promulgated, by implication or otherwise.

11)Just as not all audible differences are measurable, not all measurable differences are audible. I say that in connection with measurable differences that are presented in some marketing literature.

12)An assertion that spending more on cables rather than less increases the **probability** of achieving optimal results is arguably correct, but pronouncements to that effect are not gospel. And opinions to the contrary, if presented in a respectful manner, can and should be discussed in a respectful manner.
Kenny928, thanks for your bravery in initiating this thread.

Regards,
-- Al