Tonearm mount on the plinth or on Pillar ?


Folks,
I am looking to buy a custom built turntable from Torqueo Audio (http://www.torqueo-audio.it/). They have two models, one with a wide base plinth where the tonearm would be mounted on the plinth (as usual) and the second is a compact plinth where they provide a seperate tonearm pillar to mount the tonearm. According to them the separate tonearm pillar version sounds more transparent and quieter because of the isolation of the tonearm from the TT. My concern is whether seperating the tonearm from the plinth would result in a lesser coherence in sound ? Isnt sharing the same platform results in a more well-timed, coherent presentation ? Any opinions ?
pani

My posts were based on the information you supplied or didn't. How can I ignore facts which weren't offered?

Trying to make someone wrong is a simple technique, which weve seen on the web countless times. In so doing, the goal is not mutual understanding but simply trying to make someone else wrong solely for the sake of doing so. It does not further knowledge. IOW I don't agree that your posts were based on what you say- as far as I can see, you want me to be wrong and go away, simply so you can be right.

I'm not here to make you wrong; someone asked a real question and I answered it with the accepted and correct engineering principle. It does not matter to me beyond that, others might disagree, but they are not wrong because **I** don't agree with them, they are wrong because they lack the engineering understanding:

Assuming your results are what you say, why should we accept this as the last word on this matter? Prominent table/arm designers have reached different conclusions. You're more knowledgeable than Kuzma, Reed, or Torqueo Audio?

Reed site had a set of resonance numbers which favored the pod. They're gone now, but your anecdotes are fact?


To the latter: of course, but to be clear they are not anecdotal if backed up with the measurements; of which so far I seem to be the only one here to have caused their hand to move to get (and I hope the irony of this conversation is not lost on anyone....).

To the former: apparently, if you are saying by being correct on this subject I'm more knowledgeable, but I'm not under the illusion that because I am correct about  this that I know more than someone else. What's happening is I understand the engineering, that's all.

I've been designing tube stuff and mastering all along- no need to go back, I'm already there. I know why the 'results differ'.

It does seem though that this rather odious bubble has been popped and its contents safely dispersed without harm to the parties in the vicinity.

No strawman argument from me Ralph, at least not intentionally. I’m with ya, man! But in the different executions of a solid plinth offered by a multitude of turntable makers, all attempting to advance, or at least equal, the State Of The Art, there are varying degrees of success at achieving mechanical rigidity. I was merely acknowledging that reality.

The table I was referring to, by the way, is the Townshend Rock, the only table that locks the front end of the very long and flexible (in relation to the size of the LP groove) pickup arm onto the plinth, much as the back end is on all good tables. And that means every arm, no matter the design and quality. Makes other table designs look downright sloppy!

Halcro, you ask if I run OTL. Well, I did, and they sounded fine, but I decided on home brew, where cost is less of an object. Before building anything, I decided to optimize the system (instead of the pieces thereof), and found that I could improve system performance by using solid state Class A, push-pull, with low voltage rails, which allowed me to safely remove the now-redundant protection circuits from the ESL's.

Amps better than OTL? Don't know - but the system sure is.



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If you think air borne vibration is not a problem you are up against the issue of the real world. No matter how dead you think a thing might be, it will always have some motion, some vibration.
This is an uneducated assumption.
Most people follow this belief but if you had studied acoustics and the science of materials, you would know that materials react to air-borne sound by a mixture of:-
  • Reflection
  • Absorption (as heat)
  • Transmission (passing directly through)
It is only when sound pressure of a sufficient volume (and that's important) at a material's Resonant Frequency occurs...that the material can 'vibrate'.
You do know of course that the Resonant Frequency of most tonearm/cartridge combinations is 6-15 Hz and this is well below the frequency reproduction ability of all commercial loudspeakers and almost all subwoofers as well?
It in only in this frequency band that any vibration of the tonearm/cartridge can be observed. There is no 'alternate' vibration phenomena unless you can direct us to the relevant scientific papers?
For the heavier plinth and platter components of the turntable system, a resonant frequency in the order of 2-6 Hz may apply.
You seem to use the term 'vibrate' as if somehow it were a different genus to 'resonate'?
Not only is your understanding of air-borne sound transmission and vibration factually inaccurate, it is logically impossible.
Were it true....every increase in the volume dial would degrade the sound.
Let me repeat that....
If air-borne sound pressure is a problem in the turntable playback system, then every increase in volume would of necessity degrade the sound.
Now there are many out there who will exclaim that this is indeed the case with their systems but as I explained previously...they are hearing the effects of structure-borne feedback...AMPLIFIED.
There are tens of millions of turntable systems where turning up the volume is heard to IMPROVE the sound quality noticeably.