I used to think passive preamps were superior to active preamps given right the setup, but


my recent evaluation of a modded old SS preamp has me a little befuddled.  I've evaluated $10K+ active preamps in the past and was never impressed especially given their cost.  In general, I've found passives to do better job. I know there's ongoing debate on this.  But here's a very illuminating video on the subject by Bascom King, one of the legends of high end audio.

https://youtu.be/HHl8F9amyY4
dracule1
Audioman58, would you care share who made your preamp? You can PM me if you like.
But if for example the source component has a coupling capacitor at its output, resulting in a substantial rise in output impedance at deep bass frequencies, or if the output impedance varies significantly in other parts of the spectrum for whatever reason, using that same passive preamp may result (depending on the specific numbers that are involved) in objectionable irregularities in frequency response and/or phase response.
This comment by Al gets to the issue that I often hear about- when a passive is used, bass impact suffers (I hear about this far more often than a high frequency rolloff, for which George supplied pretty good numbers earlier in this thread).

This is because many sources, analog and digital, use an output coupling capacitor. The series resistance added when a passive is inserted into the signal chain can exacerbate the increased output impedance at low frequencies caused by the coupling capacitor. This explains why the bass often has less impact at any setting below full volume.

This is not to say that this happens in all cases! But it happens often enough that the passive/active 'conversation' is not likely to go away anytime soon.

The bass problems cited don’t just exist with passive preamps.

Yes there are some sources that have output coupling caps, and if they lose bass into a 10kohm passive, they will also lose the same bass into many class D amps some linear amps some of Pass Labs Amps and also may active speakers, as these are also 10kohm input impedance.

Ralph is right about this, but the problem is the output coupling cap of the source is too small.

EG: with a source output coupling cap of 2uf into any of the 10kohm loads above, you will have a -3db at 7hz point. If it were 1uf it would be -3db at 15hz. If .5uf -3db at 30hz.

As you can see a sources output coupling cap of at least 1uf or bigger is needed not to hear any bass roll off with any of the above 10kohm loads.

Saying that I hate caps in the signal path, give me direct coupling any day over it, as all caps have their own sound as well.


Cheers George

Hi Audioman58,
The Coincident Statement Line Stage is as you note utilizes SS rectification.  To the best of my knowledge there are no capacitors in the signal pathway, it uses instead an interstage transformer.  The Line Stage you're describing sounds like it's a very special product,  Congratulations on your ownership and may it provide you many years of happy listening. 
Charles, 
Saying that I hate caps in the signal path, give me direct coupling any day over it, as all caps have their own sound as well.
That is why we have a direct-coupled output on our preamps.

Here is a little tutorial on capacitive reactance. It bears directly on this conversation:

http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/filter/filter_1.html

Now think about adding a variable resistance out the output of a capacitor (which already has reactance). The resistance of the divider network that comprises the passive volume control is in two parts- the part in series with the capacitor and the part that goes to ground. You can see that the series portion is being added to whatever reactance the capacitor already has. As you can see from the tutorial, reactance values are higher at lower frequencies (several examples are provided). What this means is that the capacitor has to be a **lot** larger in order to not experience a significant increase in effective output impedance if a passive control is used!

The tutorial does describe the effect of an added resistance- immediately it begins to talk about filters, which is what this thread is about as well.

Designers of audio electronics like to keep the coupling caps used to values that are as small as possible for several reasons. One reason is that the cap will introduce more coloration if it is made larger. Another reason is that the coupling cap should not express a timing constant that is lower than that of the power supply that is running the circuit. If this rule is broken, the circuit can exhibit low frequency instability, which can result in increased IM distortion and in severe cases, 'pumping' and 'motorboating' effects. So it is important to avoid arbitrarily larger coupling cap values- they **have** to adhere to proper design rules.

As a result, I think it incorrect to characterize a source as having an insufficient coupling cap value when what we are really talking about here is standard accepted engineering principle. This is why even a solid state source (like our Oppo CD player in our shop) can have an audible loss of bass impact when a passive volume control is used at anything other than full volume.

I regard this as a coloration effect- and is why I prefer a **properly designed** line section, as it can avoid this problem without adding coloration of its own. I do stress emphasis however on the **properly designed** caveat.