2. amps-preamps
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The best separates between $2500-3000. Moving on from the original Rogue Sphinx Intg..

I have decided  NOT to upgrade the original  Rogue Sphinx integrated amp to its new version.  Therefore, I would humbly ask for recommendations for  the best separates in the $2500-3000 range. I would prefer the same brand pre-amp and power amp, but will consider mixed brands.

My requirements are basic: at least 150-175 RMS; a simple "quality" remote with a mute switch and smoothly calibrated volume control.  Pre-amp Out ( optional) feature;.  A good headphone stage;  A good to VG phono stage, BUT  CAN forego in favor of a good  phono box.. .

I DON'T WANT OR NEED:  an onboard DAC for streaming audio files  ; processor loops, or subwoofer inputs and outputs HT inputs and outputs;  class D amp

Because of the plethora of new pre-amps with the features I don't want, I might consider older "quality" pre-amps without the bells and whistles. However, I AM NOT interested in  so called   "upgraded" vintage  or refurbished" crap from 20-30 years ago. I recently got burned on a refurbished and marginally upgraded turntable. My mistake.  Thank you for your advice 

  

sunnyjim
mapman's avatar
mapman
22,500 posts
 

Jim thanks.


FWIW the demo I had with Sphinx and Pharoah about a year ago was with larger newer Maggies, don’t recall which exactly. The Maggies were singing quite well with either but particularly with larger Pharoah. I did not get to compare with ARC and Rogue tube amp separates there but my dealer indicated Pharoah was his favorite. He also had comparable Sonus Faber for demo that I did not get to hear.

I owned older Maggies for many years. They are not efficient and thrived off good quality higher power amps, tube or SS, but not necessarily high current.

I have heard but am not a Goldenear Triton fan to-date but would think the Sphinx would do pretty well with those. Goldenear Aon monitors I liked a lot, though smaller.

If you are planning a move to Maggies in any case, might be worth trying the Sphinx with those first just to see.


almarg's avatar
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almarg
9,670 posts
 
Hi Jim,

Before I submitted my previous post I had looked at a rear panel photo of the Sphinx, as well as at the manual, and subsequent to your response I did some further Googling on the question of driving a power amp from the Sphinx’s variable line-level outputs. I had also noted that the input impedance of the Ayre V-5xe is a very easy to drive 100K. And the Ayre’s sensitivity (the input voltage required to drive it to full power) can be calculated from its power rating and its specified 26 db gain to be approximately 1.7 volts, which seems reasonable.

The bottom line is that it seems to me to be very unlikely that what I proposed would not be a suitable approach. But when you speak to Mark at Rogue you might ask him the following:

1)Are we correct in assuming that the variable line-level outputs on your version of the Sphinx are functional, e.g., that the RCA jacks are not internally connected to nothing?

2)How much gain is there between the phono inputs and those outputs?

3)How much gain is there between the line-level inputs and those outputs?

4)Would running the Sphinx with nothing connected to its speaker-level outputs have any adverse sonic effects on the variable line-level outputs?

5)Would running the Sphinx with nothing connected to its speaker-level outputs pose any threat of damage?

It seems slightly conceivable to me, although unlikely, that question 2 could turn out to be an issue, in terms of having enough gain to be able to drive the external amp to full power when using a phono source. I would be very surprised, though, and it would not speak well of the design, if the answers to any of the other questions conflicted with my suggestion.

Best regards,
-- Al



sunnyjim OP
927 posts
 

Al, Thank you again for your vast audio knowledge. I shot off an e-mail today to specifically to Mark O'Brien about whether any of the inputs numbered 1, 2, 3, can be used as true pre-amp out. 

I owned a Creek 5350SE Classic in 2007, and eventually used it as a pre-amp stage which is activated by pushing in a button and removing pre-amp shorting bar.  Simple   . If necessary, I will cut and paste your e-mail to answer the questions. you provided

BTW, I was somewhat surprised by your recommendation of the Ayre V5xe amp, and just because of the price It is also a monster weighing 75lbs. I would be in traction for months.  Nevertheless, I would think that the magic of good sound would lie first in the pre-amp, not necessarily the power amp, unless it grossly under powered. Though, from my limited understanding of power amps having owned a few, power  high current, low noise and especially low THD and IMD are the requirements to make a qualitative jump in sound quality. I saw a distinct demonstration of this in 1988 when I sold my APT Holman combo.  (The amp was kind of wimpy even at its alleged  rating 100RMS) to an Aragon 4004MK II, and a CJ PV-8.  Though the true proof would have been to listen to Aragon amp through Holman pre-amp. Nevertheless the Aragon was superior almost across the board, though a bit on the bright side, even through the tubed CJ PV-8. I will let you know what Mark O'Brien reports.

BTW, do you know, or have auditioned, or owned, one of the Van Alstine. The CL Ultra Vaccum tube pre-amp line stage which supposedly is their best  at $1899 (add 627 to that number for a remote and VA's MM/MC phonostage.)  There are two other less expensive pre-amp line stages SL Vision, and EC full vaccum tube pre-amp. Both are $899 plus $627  for remote and phono. (Frank claims the second one is a bit more"engaging")  

Yes, both are doable, but  the top dog VA pre-amp costing $1000 more might be the better and wiser choice.  If so, a used Khartago Plus amp, or used Stratos Plus might be the best "budget" choice I can make amp at this time, though I wish the Khartago has more power.

BTW, the seller on e-bay sold the ARC 100.2 for $1425 from his starting price of $1750. This as I mentioned was supposedly  the best ARC SS amp   It did get convincing reviews.   Thanks again. I will keep you posted.  

 

 

almarg's avatar
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almarg
9,670 posts
 
Hi Jim,

Thanks for the nice words. Regarding:
I shot off an e-mail today to specifically to Mark O’Brien about whether any of the inputs numbered 1, 2, 3, can be used as true pre-amp out.
I’ve been assuming that the rear panel of your Sphinx looks like the following, which is how it is described in the manual and is how it appears in numerous other rear panel photos I’ve seen:

http://rogueaudio.com/Images/sphinxrearlrg.jpg

It would be the "Output Var" jacks that would be used to connect to an external power amp, assuming those are present on your version of the Sphinx. I would definitely not expect inputs 1, 2, or 3 to be suitable for that purpose.

Regarding the weight of the Ayre V-5xe, while the ad I linked to indicates 75 pounds, apparently for its shipping weight, both the manual and the description at the Ayre website indicate that the amp weighs 55 pounds.
I would think that the magic of good sound would lie first in the pre-amp, not necessarily the power amp, unless it grossly under powered. Though, from my limited understanding of power amps having owned a few, power high current, low noise and especially low THD and IMD are the requirements to make a qualitative jump in sound quality.
First, I would ignore THD and IMD specs in just about all cases, as they have little if any correlation with sound quality. Although I would be cautious about a power amp having THD numbers that are extremely "good," as that may be indicative of heavy-handed application of feedback in the design. Which in turn can result in excessive Transient Intermodulation Distortion (TIM), which is not normally specified, as well as excessive amounts of the specific components of harmonic distortion that are most objectionable (even though the TOTAL harmonic distortion may be very small).

Second, I am not a believer in generalities about the relative importance of preamps and power amps. It depends on the specific case, IMO. And in the case of a modestly priced integrated amp employing a tube-based line stage and a class D solid state power stage, my instinct is that it is more likely than not to be the power stage that is the sonic weak link.

Regarding the ARC 100.2, my biggest concern would have been the possibility that due to its age it would no longer sound as good as it once did, and/or that it would develop age-related problems in the not too distant future.

Finally, I have no particular knowlege of AVA products, but you may want to seek out posts on one of their products that have been made here by member "Schubert," who owns and has raved about one of them (I don’t recall which). I have particular respect for his sonic judgments.  To add a bit of context to that, btw, I'll mention that as in my case most of his listening is to classical music.

Good luck. Best regards,
-- Al

mapman's avatar
mapman
22,500 posts
 
FWIW I would hesitate to replace a newer amp based on switching technology (Class D) with any older ones.

The technology has improved immensely in general in recent years and has not yet peaked in terms of bandwidth possible.

I heard a current ARC SS switching amp model about a year or two back at Lyric in NYC.   The speaker pairing was not quite my cup of tea, but I thought the sound to be quite good nonetheless and it to have a lot of potential finely tuned together with a wide variety of speakers.
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