Help Picking a turntable


Hi Everyone,

Rod at my local store here where I buy my gear (unless I buy here at Audiogon) was at my house doing a master set for my speakers (they sound much better) and he suggested I consider getting a turntable and switching to records from cds to get better sound.  I am considering his suggestion but my biggest problem is that I don't know anything about turntables.  Rod recommended a turntable package from EAT that includes the arm, cartridge etc. for about $6,500, which is more than I want to spend.  He said he would look into turntables that are a bit less that would still sound good but I thought I would also check with everyone here to see if anyone had ideas also that I could discuss with Rod when I meet with him.  I'd like to stay under $3000 for the turntable package (turntable, arm, cartridge etc.). 

My current system is: Thiel 3.7 speakers; ARC REF 75 SE amp; ARC LS-17 SE pre-amp (I will also need a phono stage which I know will be in addition to the $3,000 I am willing to spend on the turntable package); analysis plus solo crystal oval speaker wire and interconnects.  Lastly, all of my music now is played through my Simaudio 280d DSD DAC (my cd player, computer etc are all hooked into the dac directly -- no wi fi). 

I'd appreciate any advice and suggestions to help educate me before I go down to Rod's store again and listen and meet with him.  As I said, I know nothing about turntables so any advice, suggestions etc. are very welcome.  Thank you all again in advance for your responses.     
Ag insider logo xs@2xgasherbaum
I agree with many of the guys on here about researching what your getting into.  I would pick up a older vintage table for under $1k and try it out get a few records and play them see how you like it. then if you fall in love with it like most of us here have then sell the vintage table for pretty much what you paid for it and get a nice set up to take advantage of your system. it'd be a shame to spend thousands on a set up and find its not for you. To be honest there are some nice vintage tables that will give you good results for cheep and give you the taste of things to come.

I run vintage as well. Garrard 301 grease bearing, Jelco 750l, Van Den Hul MC10  cart and a Denon 103 MC (that Denon is a great cart for under $500) and custom plinth.
VPI offers many excellent designs that will not disappoint.  The Prime and Classic designs are hard to beat at their price points.
This common phrase - hard to beat - has no real meaning, it's BS and nothing else.
I answer because I recently got a modest vinyl setup.

My recommendation is to go with a late 70’s higher end Japanese mass produced DD turntable like Pioneer PL-550 (manual with heavy plinth and platter) or similar (Technics, Denin and others were good too). These are often available refurbished. You are looking at $500 for a restored one (new veneer and caps and serviced parts). These have the S arm which is medium to heavy weight for cartridge compliance and a very heavy base/platter and with quartz lock. The wow and flutter and rumble are good enough considering the quality of vinyl you will be buying (mostly used).

I got into TT in the early 80’s and at that time light plastic TT had become very popular (I had a mid level Denon back then). Same movement towards super light graphite arms. I don’t like the light plastic acrylic design. I don’t like superlight arms. I don’t believe the marketing. My experience is that the best designs were mid to late 70’s. Heavier plinth and platter is better IMHO. Medium weight arm is best for all round performance and allows use of lower compliance cartridge. Of course you can get super heavy fantastic modern TT for 10K and up but the next best thing is a heavy audiophile quality vintage TT mass produced at the peak of vinyl’s popularity in the late 70’s (well refurbished).

So save your money to buy Japanese vinyl pressings of rare or interesting stuff. You get more bang for buck in terms of audio quality buying Japanese Vinyl than spending 10K on a TT. Frankly, most vinyl (US and UK) is garbage and mass produced Vinyl after the mid 70’s was and remains garbage. Earlier vinyl can be good. German pressings are often better but Japan quality is overall on average head and shoulders above the rest.

You also need a cartridge. This is as important as the pressings. You need something that suits your taste. For starter you cannot go wrong with a Denon DL-110 - this is one of the few MC cartridges that works with the more common MM phono preamp. It was used in broadcast for years and gives you that classic sound (which should be one of the reasons you go for vinyl as well as ability or fun to find rare vintage stuff).

Even in the 80’s, as a student, I bought exclusively Japanese pressings over US garbage - despite the much higher cost. They are more expensive but SO worth it if you have an audiophile ear. Recently I buy from Japanese sellers on eBay with excellent results. I have only been duped by a Western seller on a Dire Straits boxed set that was ostensibly fron Pallas Germany pressing but turned out to be a cheap garbage pressing from gzvinyl (largest mass producer of garbage) - so beware - vinyl quality is terrible.

This is just an opinion - two cents - many experts will vehemently disagree - just offering you some food for thought.