Vandersteen Treo vs 3A Sig as upgrade

As a long time 3A Signature owner who is listening to Treo CT for the past two months.  The resolution, smoothness of texture and dynamic drive of the Treos put them in another league entirely from the 3A Sigs.  However, I have two 2wq subwoofers along with the Treo CT so I can't relate to the less than satisfying bass response.  If you are listening mostly to hard rock type music, absent the subs. I can see where they would be more enjoyable for you.  I have said many times on this forum, for as amazing as the Treo CT is, the 3A Sig. is a great value and in your case, has the several Hz at the bottom end that you need.  Enjoy your 3A Signatures!

Remember one thing about Vandersteen Audio.  Richard never comes out with a new design that is more expensive that does not deliver the musical goods commensurate with its price point!  I have so much faith in that, that I bought my Treo CT unseen and unheard. The only surprise for me is that they are so more highly resolved and present such a sophisticated sound.  Every time I leave my listening room a have a big smile on my face.

As for you, I hope you leave your listening sessions smiling as well.

Well put as always Hifiman.  If you are looking to just pressurize a room, then yes, the 3a is your speaker.  I have always said that.  All anyone seems to be saying is the 3a is a better speaker because it moves more air, but that's not giving the Treo's their due.  Just saying you can't have it both ways.  I'm glad that folks love their 3a's.  They should as it's a great speaker.  I'd own one if I didn't have the Treo's.  The 3A Sig has a 8 inch and 10 inch woofer and subwoofer. The Treo has a 6.5 woofer and a 8 inch subwoofer. When it comes to shear power, not quality the old racing adage applies: "there is no substitute for cubic inches". One would have to add a 2Wq to surpass the Model 3 in it ability to move air. The Treo CT outsells the Model 3 by 8 to 1, so the market speakers with their priorities. One more note, the two speakers load the room differently so that can make a big difference. The Treo CT is designed to be used within 1 to 3 feet of the rear wall and the Model 3 is designed to be used 3 to 6 feet into the room. Put the Treo into the room 3 or 4 feet and the bass will lean out.

The Treo has better mids, and the CT undoubtedly has better treble. That’s giving them their due. This discussion is about bass, so hifimans "well put" comments are outside the parameters of this discussion, which is about the unaided bass of the Treo run full range. My priority for a music system is musical involvement. Accurate or not, the Sigs never boot me out of a boogie mood, dropping the ball so severely that I think I’m listening to the wimpy Treo. That’s right. The Treo is Wimpy. The saying is "there’s no replacement for displacement". It holds true more than ever for rock, at any volume. If the Treo is selling 8 to 1 then there’s either a lot of subs being sold or a lot of small chamber, small jazz and acoustical going on. Treos are great speakers for that. Be happy and go with it. Or get subs. Or Quatros. Just don’t run Treos full range and expect small driver miracles. It ain’t gonna happen. Rockers be warned!

Yes, for Rock, you want that pressuring bass and often times the poorly recorded stuff sounds better when it's not as revealed. I agree with you on that.  Always have.  I personally don't see why something is outside of a discussion, but thats' fine. Again, I'm not putting down the 3's at all. Your personal feeling is that if something doesn't pressurize a room as much as another speaker that has larger displacement, that it's whimsy...I completely disagree and that we will respectfully disagree on. It's all good. We all listen differently.  I get plenty of reinforcement in my set up and I like hearing individual notes etc.... I was just listening to rock this morning and it had plenty of boogie and drive.  

As for selling 8-1, those are folks who still love rock I can promise you that.  There are tons of us driving them without subs and loving them and being able to boogie.  Just set them up properly and feed them a great signal and most are fine.  

I speak with a lot of Treo owners all the time.  Most of us aren't running our systems full blast anymore.  I can play my system at very loud levels and there is tons of drive.  I'm a former drummer and know full well what it's like to pressurize a room.  Like I have and will say, the 3 goes lower and will give you more quantity, but sometimes even for rock, many of us love quality even more.  

Again, I'm not trying to fight you on this.  I'm really not.  If we were having a beer and talking about this, I think we'd probably agree with each other in the end.  It's the same trade off debate, quality or quantity. There are more rockers out here than you think who are getting plenty of quantity with quality and are happy they have.  Again, like anything, much of it is still in the set up and using the room to reinforce bass.  Will I move up in the line?  Yes, I will and I knew it when I purchases my Treo's last year.  That was and still is my plan.  Do many get Treo's and add a woofer?  Yes, some do, but not many.  At least Richard makes various speakers that allow us to all enjoy anything we listen to and we can easily move up as wanted to get what we want out of our speakers.  To me, this whole discussion just shows why we love our Vandersteen speakers.  If the are wimpy to you, then those are your words and that's all good.  Strong mid 30's to me isn't wimpy, but that's our big difference I think.  If the price was the same, would you own Treo's with subs set up properly or stay with the 3's?  

hifimans response was directed to me personally in response to my observations of the Treos unaided bass.  He extolled the virtues of the mids and treble, stating that he had no experience with the Treos run full range, therefor no opinion on the bass.  I guess he wanted to say something positive in response, it just didn't apply to the particular vein the thread was in at the time - outside the parameters of the moment, certainly not outside the parameters of the thread.
 I would like to hear from the "tons of us" that think they boogie on rock, sans subs.  They are noticeably absent from the thread.  Everyone has an opinion and I invite them to express it.  If they stick to describing what they hear, good or bad, about the Treos or the Sigs then fine.  If their product evaluation takes a turn and the owners become the target, I take issue with that.  When I read that owners opinions are dismissed because they're used to inferior sound, or their equipment doesn't allow them to evaluate the product properly, or a musician hears things regular mortals can't, or sight unseen that it's the fault of the set-up - well you get the gist.  The reason I insisted this thread be about the speakers and not those other things is because when I researched before starting this thread all the threads ended up the same.  You jump in, Johnny jumps in, the set-up is blamed and the thread is monopolized and dies.  Only the tiniest bits of fact unrelated to set-up were available about the Treo from real users.  I'm not looking for a fight either, but you're now attempting to monopolize yet another thread and if history is any indication, you won't give up until you sugar coat and white wash anything that could be construed as a negative about a Vandersteen product.  I'll fight you on it.  The public deserves a decent thread with real information.  I've fought for it, here it is.  
Would I buy the Treo with subs?  If I could fit the subs in the same room with my wife (she's a feisty 105 lbs.) I would certainly entertain the notion.  As stated, I like the Treo for polite music.  It just doesn't get down and boogie - for me and for others who actually have spoken up here on their own behalf.  Caveat Emptor.