High end UPS for Expensive audio eequipments

westom09-14-2016 1:40pm You have confused resistance with impedance.

No, I'm not confused at all. But like @Eric_Squires, I'm done arguing with you and your notions of a "single ground point" through a grounding rod and other misinformed - and potentially lethally dangerous - "theories."

cleeds has not even asked what 'single point earth ground' means.  And somehow is an expert?  Single point earth ground must both meet and exceed code requirements.  As was clearly obvious.  He could change tact and start learning what these expressions really mean.  But he won't.  Some people get attached to what advertising has told them.  And then are incapable of learning science; learning how easy advertising brainwashes.

Single point earth ground is standard in every facility that does not have damage. Even implemented in the earliest days of telephones so that operators worked without harm through every thunderstorm. 

cleeds is an example of one entrenched by propaganda.  Unable to learn simple science concepts that even Ben Franklin demonstrated in 1752.  A classic naysayer who knows only he is right.  He cannot even post one manufacturer specification number.

Plenty more to learn. Blackouts and brownouts do not damage hardware.  Most anomalies are already made irrelevant by what is inside electronics.  Anomalies that can overwhelm existing protection are rare.  So informed consumers spend $1 per protected appliance on protection that is far superior to any 'magic' plug-in' box.  Since strip protectors can even compromise superior protection inside appliances if not used in conjunction with a proven and properly earthed 'whole house' solution.

A simple rule applies.  Protection is always about where hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate.  A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.

>  Um, your comments about series mode protection are in contradiction with the UL surge protection ratings, and your insistence on relying on Joule ratings means you don’t understand the physics involved. No current = no joules. The same for your ridiculous claims of undersized MOV’s. 

Again UL says nothing about hardware protection.  Anyone with basic electrical knowledge knows that.  UL is only concerned with human safety.  A protector can be near zero protection, not protect anything, fail catastrophically, and still be UL listed.  Because it did not spit sparks and flames.  UL says nothing about protection.  If I say it again, will you finally grasp it?  UL says nothing about hardware protection.  If you cannot get past that, then I must conclude you are incapable of learning even simplest stuff. 

UL1449 is about human safety.  Unfortunately some near zero joule protectors still create house fires. To meet the latest UL1449 upgrade, many protector manufacturers had to increase their joules.  A recent example were some 15 million APC protectors. Why ignore examples of near zero protectors that even create house fires.  Do you need another 50 examples to finally admit advertising lies?

Series mode protectors will 'absorb' up to 600 joules.  If not, a denial would quote a spec number.  No numbers quoted because the denial is an emotion; not based in facts or numbers.  Series mode filters protect from surges that typically cause no damage.

600 volts is protection standard in electronics before PCs existed.  Appliances today are even more robust.  Since you deny specifications (because you don't like it), well, this quote is from Dr Standler's 1992 IEEE paper:  :
> This paper is apparently the first publication in the peer-reviewed, archival engineering literature that specifically discusses the ability of unprotected electronic equipment to survive surges in a laboratory. Surprisingly, consumer electronic equipment was able to survive surges with peak voltages of 2000 V,

600 volts.  1800 volts. Those were specification numbers.  Standler found 2000 volts is a more realistic number.  Why remain entrenched on 600 volts - a number from 40 years ago? Apparently only to argue..

Protection is not about a voltage.  High voltage only exists when someone foolishly tried to 'block' or 'absorb' a surge.  Protection of expensive equipment is never provided by urban myths - 'magic boxes'.  Effective 'whole house' protector never foolishly tries to 'block' a surge - therefore create a high voltage.  Instead, near zero voltages exist when effective protection connects a current (not a voltage) low impedance to earth.   At what point should we mention it is science proven over 100 years ago.

Facilities that cannot have damage always use a 'whole house' solution.   That is, beyond doubt, OP's best recommendation.  It even comes with numbers that say so.

Impedance - not resistance.  Naysayers do not even know what impedance is.  Do not even know what single point earth ground is.  And then make bogus accusations because they did not know it;  They still do not know what single point earth ground is.  Do not have a clue what is or is not dangerous.  Apparently near zero protectors creating fires is not dangerous - their reasoning.

Best protection for the OP is a 'whole house' solution from other companies known by any guy for integrity.  Furman and APC are not on that list.  A protector is only as effective as its earth ground - including that low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) connection. Reality has not changed because near zero joules manufacturers said so.  A protector is only as effective as its earth ground - item that does the protection.

Short of getting an electrical engineering degree or repping one of the major power conditioning companies (w/huge discounts on the entire line), this topic boils down to common sense and exhaustive completeness:
1 - Get a whole-house surge supression device at the electrical panel...something very robust that can take a big spike. An electrician can install it. It's almost certainly better than any local outlet devices
2 - But audiophiles being the OCD creatures we are, go ahead & install any pricey surge suppressors or high end power modification devices you want ahead of the big $$$ gear, paying special attention to line level tube equipment, as someone else here noted
3 - I have a UPS in the home office--it's perfect for desktop computers, which can lose data in a millisecond's outage. But the real solution is a whole house system. Very expensive, but worth it. After the 3rd or 4th extended winter power outage (upstate NY), I finally installed a propane-fired Generac generator w/automatic transfer switch. It's big enough to carry the entire house (20 KW). My home office billing justified the cost and I never looked back
4 - But even with all that, the vulnerability that remains for many is the incoming cable TV or satellite TV wire. Lighting can light up anything attached to those wires, and typically there's no surge protection for those TVs, receivers, or other audio gear--or the surge protection only stands between the power outlets and the gear. There are surge suppression systems that allow cable connection, but that gets tricky w/2-way communication protocols; most people simply disconnect their cable wires at a central location whenever the weather becomes threatening...

@westom

Like everything else in this discussion, your reading is half-baked. UL 1449 includes testing for effectiveness as a surge protection device in addition to life safety issues like not starting fires after a surge. Do some reading before posting.

Series mode surge protection devices have the best (lowest) UL tested "let through voltage" or VPR for test surges. meaning that during tetsting the equipment being protected would suffer a much lower voltage than with MOV parallel devices.

This is why fairly reliable companies such as Furman, SurgeX, and PS Audio rely on them for their best protection, and have NO MOV’s or joule ratings (for AC protection) and have no sacrificial components (in the AC protection).  Again, if you had bothered going through the design, or reading the spec you wrote so eloquently incorrectly about you'd know this.



Best,


Erik