Questioning the need for a DAC


Friends,
I have a modified Oppo 103 that was a huge step up from my $2K Consonance tube CD player.  I also have a Jolida FX Tube DAC, maybe the II version, which I have had for many years.  I ran the Oppo directly into my system (I have a Don Sachs tube preamp and various amps, tube and SS, and Spatial Audio Hologram M4 Turbo S speakers) and then through the Jolida.  I honestly didn't hear a difference.  Some months later,  I demo'd a Schiit Gungnir and did the same comparison.  I really couldn't discern an audible difference with the Schiit in or out of the system.  I will admit that I sent the Schiit back for a refund after only 30 hours or so of burn-in so maybe 100 hours of burn-in might have lead to a different outcome.  A boatload of audiophiles rave about the sonic improvement with the pricey DAC's in their systems, no question about it.  With my ears, not so much.  

A "cheap and cheerful" audiophile friend of mine, who doesn't listen to much digitally-reproduced music, posed an interesting question.   If one invests in a modern quality CD player (i.e., like the Oppo 103 or 105, which make the Stereophile list of "Class A" products or many others between $1K-$5K), why is there the expectation that one needs a separate DAC to improve the sound of the DAC?   It is not trivial question.  As a matter of fact, I called Oppo while I was auditioning the Schiit DAC, nonplussed, asking why I wasn't hearing some significant improvement with the addition of an external DAC of the caliber of the Gungnir.  In response, the Oppo rep suggested, quite casually, that maybe the internal DAC in the modestly-priced Oppo 103 was quite good.  Indeed, because that is what my 63-year old ears told me.

I'd be keen to hear feedback from others who ponder the same question.   As I age, I am aware of the desire of sellers of many audio products to strike a deal with me that frankly might benefit them more financially than I  benefit sonically.  Cheers, Mark 

  
whitestix
Regarding dac differences/upgrades, My experience is that AC isolation and conditioning - addressing both common and differential noises - will always make a 'significant' improvement to any decent hifi system; vastly surpassing a simple dac upgrade. I recommend you look into the video on the new Audioquest Niagara 7000 to get a better idea of what I'm talking about. I hope you find this interesting as the results of isolation and conditioning are indisputable and worthwhile. (I don't own any Audioquest products or have any interest; merely found the presentation effective.)
Hey Randy, 
I did miss you point about CD's... it was just one particular CD you didn't like.  I share the same views on vinyl, my friend.  I will report back on the usefulness of the CIA DAC.  Cheers, Mark

ptss,
Thanks for the information.  I have used a pricey PL conditioner for years for my non-power components.   I can't say that I notice any difference straight into the wall vs. through the conditioner.  
Whitestix, I assume you were using the SPDIF input from the Oppo to the Gungnir?

Hopefully not using the USB interface in the Gugnir?

If you were using the USB interface then the Gungnir was not performing  anywhere near it's full potential.

I have the Bifrost and found that by bypassing the USB interface, i.e. using a V-Link192 for USB conversion to SPDIF, elevates the performance of the Bifrost to a whole new level of detail.

It should work wonders on the Gungnir.

FYI - the Bifrost and Gungnir utilize the exact same USB interface.

Then again, the Oppo is a very good digital source.

Regards...

Do you need a different dac ? Who knows . They all have a slightly different presentation no ? What do your system and your ears need ? Claims have been made that pro audio dacs will be the least colored of the bunch . Maybe you like colored though ? So who knows ? Only you do .I also am using a Oppo 105d as a dac currently . Sounds great to my ears . Still i will be buying different dacs in the future for comparisons . Have in the past as well . But the Oppo is a lifetime product for me in that i watch my cable tv and movie . netfix with it as well . Enjoy .
Gents,
I a guess a few folks agree that the Oppo is pretty good kit, me included, probably with younger and better ears than I have.  I used a Toslink connection when I demo'd the Gungnir, no USB.  BTW, with my Jolida FX DAC, I noticed no difference when streaming from my external HD>iMac to my system except that I never had an issue with hum with the Toslink IC, but often did with the USB.  

I received the CIA DAC/Power supply a bit ago so I am going to give it a listen on this rainy Friday night in Sacramento.   I will get back to you with my impressions.  Cheers, Mark