Using tube amp with electrostatic speakers.

When I read all of the responses saying that tube amps will have problems driving Martin Logan speakers, I just had to make my first post on Audiogon.

I have 2 Audio Research VT100 Mk IIs bi-amping a pair of Martin Logan SL3s. These speakers have never sounded better. The sound is organic and natural sounding. If the recording has a lot of spacial information and depth, it is revealed in the presentation. If the recording is flat, that too is revealed. Cymbals sound the way they should. Vocals, including female, just sound right.

Before bi-amping the SL3s, I had one VT100 amp. The sound was similar but there was less depth and the stage wasn’t as wide. Also, large orchestral works just didn’t have the presence that they should have. This was the reason for a second amp. NOTE: I do not listen at high volume levels. The stereo is in a loft so the left and right speaker are not presented with the same wall configuration which just messes up the stage width and depth at high volumes. Plus, I want to be able to listen to my stereo for many years. ;)

BTW, my pre-amp is also tube based.

Recently, I wanted to get away from two amps and tubes. I read a lot about Pass Labs amps and purchased an X350.5. I liked some of what it did but ultimately the sound was just unnatural with overblown bass, etched highs and an odd midrange. Every time, I switch back to my VT100s, I found that I enjoyed the music more. I returned the Pass Labs amp.

I am now looking for a more powerful tube based amp so I can go to a single amp.

My experience for what it's worth.

Long time ML user since 1979. I've owned SL3's, Aries i's, ReQuests, CLS,  Monolith III's, and now Theos. 

I've been on Audiogon since 1997. There's always been a myth that ML's are "harder to drive." I drove SL3's with a lowly 35 watt Prima Luna. I drove CLS to satisfying levels with an 8 watt SET amp! Currently I'm using a Dennis Had Inspire firebottle KT88 SET to power Theos. 

Each individual has different audio needs. We each listen differently. I listen to jazz, in a smaller room now. But even when I had a larger room I drove ML's to very satisfying levels with Manley 450 mono's. In fact, I've never had a more satisfying audio experience than pushing a pair of CLS' with those Manley's. 

I'm big on tube amps for ML's....and I sewed my audio teeth on Pass, Threshold, Plinius, and too many other amps to mention.

It's not a one size fits all audio world. What works for me won't necessarily work for you. And that's as it should be. 

If I had a friend with a pair of SL3's I'd be wondering more about how much longer are those panels going to last, as that speaker went out of service in 2002?

McIntosh equipment and ML’s are both sold by the same retailers, is that the reason for the question? My friend was a huge, enthusiastic McIntosh dealer until they went with Magnolia/Best Buy. Due to his kindness I have tried various McIntosh amps on various electrostatics. I know that the McIntosh amps are not a good match for (full-range) electrostatics beginning with QUADs. The OP should find out if they offer another solid state amp with lots of current to drive the electrostatics. You might stay away from Levinson amps too.

Yes, the Classe’ 45 watt VHC amp should drive electrostatics well. Bravo with sticking with a great amp! Reich is a brilliant designer.

Unfortunately the Martin Logan’s "curvilinear" membrane is a fundamentally flawed design. That, among other reasons, is why they have to offer a 5 year warranty.

Ralph, I’d still like to get your opinion on McIntosh amps with autoformers. Just in general, do you think they are a good sounding amp compared with other amps in their price ranges? Do they implement their autoformers well? Would they be a good choice for driving speakers with difficult impedance loads? Theoretically, of course.  We all know that good sound depends on many factors in a given system.

I was not aware that Mac was still making those; in the old days their autoformers worked quite well. But with those older amps I would not be asking them to drive anything much below 4 ohms.

The only thing difficult about the MLs is usually their impedance. Beyond that its my opinion that its a Bad Idea to make any amplifier work hard by making it drive a 'difficult load'. What happens is you get more distortion, usually of the type that make the resulting sound harsher and less detailed.

This is why I've recommended the ZERO so often in the past, as it allows the amplifier to drive an easier load.

I don't think the Macs have impedance taps below 4 ohms but usually they do employ a fair amount of negative feedback so they should work alright on ML loudspeakers if not pushed too hard.